EP 25 The Power of the Pause: Responding Instead of Reacting in Leadership with Susan Lanphier | Deep Work Out Loud
Julie Harris Oliver: Welcome to Deep Work Out Loud, the thinking that fuels our life, our work, and our leadership. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. This is the podcast where I sit with another professional coach, and we do some work around a single concept, a piece of inspiration, a topic we've seen come up in coaching, something just we've been thinking about or reading about. If we're really lucky while we're talking about it, we might demonstrate what coaching might look and feel like. But we'll see how this goes. It's all an experiment, and with any luck, you will leave with something that you can apply and use in your work or your life or both.
She has spent more than three decades in the technology sector, including 17 years at Microsoft, working alongside senior leaders through periods of rapid growth, high stakes, and constant change. Those experiences gave her a front row seat to what happens to leaders when the pressure is on and the emotional demands of the job go unaddressed. Today, she brings that inside perspective to her coaching work, helping leaders [00:01:00] navigate change, deepen self-awareness, and show up with greater intention and impact. Her focus is at the intersection of identity and transformation by supporting leaders as they translate insight into meaningful action. She lives outside Seattle with her husband and has two adult children. She enjoys attending soccer games, boating, and traveling to visit family and friends. Hello, Susan.
Susan Lanphier: Hello, Julie.
Julie Harris Oliver: Thank you for being here
Susan Lanphier: I appreciate the opportunity to connect today
Julie Harris Oliver: I'm so glad you're here.
Susan Lanphier: Thank you
Julie Harris Oliver: So what have you been thinking about that we should be talking about?
Susan Lanphier: I have been thinking about the power of the pause.
Julie Harris Oliver: Hmm.
Susan Lanphier: And so
Julie Harris Oliver: that
Susan Lanphier: thank you. When I reflect on that, certainly in the workplace, but also in communications with people, in our personal lives and professional lives, I think it's so important. the power of the pause can really bridge, and provide an [00:02:00] opportunity for choice when an emotional trigger comes up, and then, it really provide depending on how we react or respond to that, it can really provide an opportunity for connection.
And that's what I think is so important in leadership today is creating connection with our colleagues, direct reports, managers, everybody that we encounter, all the people, right?
Julie Harris Oliver: So when you say the power of the pause, when you say the pause,
Susan Lanphier: Mm-hmm
Julie Harris Oliver: like what do you mean? In what circumstances do you need to pause?
Susan Lanphier: For example, when at work, if there is a emotional, emotionally charged situation or emotionally charged person, I think it's very important to provide a pause, meaning instead of doing acoming at it from an emotional reaction or default trigger, [00:03:00] developing the skill to create a pause, remain curious, and then show up with some grace and understanding of what truly might be going on for this other person or the team in these moments
Julie Harris Oliver: So like the difference from, um, between, responding reacting. And boy, is this a skill I wish I had had when I had those jobs where I feel triggered all the time
Susan Lanphier: I understand and, and I believe it's a lifelong practice for sure
Julie Harris Oliver: So what might it, what might it look like of in the micro? 'Cause kinda walk us through
Susan Lanphier: Right. So for example, maybe there's a situation where a manager has to give an employee feedback that may not be received very well, and [00:04:00] in the actual conversation of giving feedback, say that that employee responds with defensiveness or anger,
Julie Harris Oliver: Sure
Susan Lanphier: and what is the manager going to do? There's a couple things.
They could react and get defensive themselves. Or alternatively, they could pause and take a beat, whether that's a breath, whether that's just a couple breaths, and taking a beat in order to be curious about why the employee is reacting the way they are. And this may or may not be direct conversation, but what I know is that fear is ultimately the underneath, you know, the emotion that is underneath anger, defensiveness and, um, you know, acknowledging that [00:05:00] and coming from a, you know, if the manager can acknowledge that internally or mentally or even, you know, be curious and ask the question to the employee, "What is, what is going on for you right now?" Or, " What did it...how did this resonate with you when I said the consistent feedback is that people don't find you approachable?" For example. What does that mean to you? And just allowing allowing space and opportunity for processing and letting the, the employee assign meaning to what that, that feedback, how that resonates with them.
And so I think... Go ahead
Julie Harris Oliver: Oh, it sounds like in, in that circumstance that you're describing, the employee also needs to, put in a pause. and it sounds like what you're suggesting is that the manager can actually help them create that pause and create that space where they can process it maybe a little bit differently, [00:06:00] so that maybe they can have a more productive conversation
Susan Lanphier: Correct. And I think, leaders set the stage for the emotional temperature, whether it be in one-on-one conversations, in team meetings, in interactions with other teams. The leaders set the stage and
Julie Harris Oliver: walking into the room, they set the tone
Susan Lanphier: absolutely. It's interesting you mention that. I found a quote by Brené Brown which talks about where she mentions what is...what a leader brings into the room is what is acceptable in the room.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah
Susan Lanphier: You know, presence, emotion, you know, whether they're... I think the somatics iinis important, too. People pick up on that energy, so whether they're saying anything or not, what they bring can set the emotional temperature for an interaction and vice versa, right?
Julie Harris Oliver: this on the, we can see this on the [00:07:00] macro stage right now
Susan Lanphier: Absolutely
Julie Harris Oliver: to our public discourse with tone being set. So imagine how powerful that is just in a small setting and in a room, in a, in an organization, in a company.
Susan Lanphier: Especially, thinking of more of a macro level, all of the challenges that are going on in today's workplace, particularly in high tech and in the Seattle area where we're having thousands and thousands of layoffs and and you know, fear, uncertainty, and doubt really can be stirred up, you know, with the layoffs, with AI disruption.
Um, and, and part of that, I think, is an anlearning opportunity for managers to see emotion as data points, to see emotion as, okay, this is not a personal attack. This person, this individual may be having some feelings underneath the anger, and can I be curious and respond with some [00:08:00] empathy and just, take that beat so there's an opportunity to respond as opposed to just react by default.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah.
Susan Lanphier: And
Julie Harris Oliver: So it's one thing to know that,
Susan Lanphier: Correct. Correct
Julie Harris Oliver: thing to know that. So what kind of work has to happen, in order to get to that point where you can take the pause, be curious, be more reflective rather than just reacting?
Susan Lanphier: I think it really points back to our coaching and my coaching in particular, where I just love to be able to, guide people through their own discovery and work. And, um, it's a self-exploration opportunity for folks and through coaching. And this is another area where coaching is very beneficial and understanding for the leader, for people in general, what things might be getting in their way from making progress, from showing up and being the leader that they truly want to be.
What [00:09:00] impact are they having on their employees, regardless of their intentions, right? And, um, again practice and the power of coaching. And like I had said earlier, for me personally, it's a lifelong journey. This does not happen overnight. I wish it did, right?
Julie Harris Oliver: It is,
Susan Lanphier: But it does not.
Julie Harris Oliver: not
Susan Lanphier: practice is important, getting support, working with a coach, um, and, and in the organization, normalizing it, normalizing emotions, and that it's okay, um, for these things to happen.
I've been in situations before in my, my prior life working in technology where there have been layoffs and the manager at the end of the day is like, "Okay, it's five o'clock. Everybody that was, getting laid off has already been notified. You guys are all, are all okay. So, that's what I have to say, [00:10:00] and everybody get back to work."
And it's "Hold on. Wait a minute."
Julie Harris Oliver: Those people also have feelings.
Susan Lanphier: AAb-We
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah
Susan Lanphier: all do, right? And it's just, yeah. there's such an opportunity for normalizing the very challenging environment that, that is occurring in organizations today, normalizing theemotions that people are having and providing space for that processing, for the, in that example, the survivor guilt, the, "Oh my gosh, now we have to do more with fewer resources," all of those things.
and having those conversations to get clarity is really important.
Julie Harris Oliver: about emotions at work... Sorry, I interrupted you.
Susan Lanphier: no, go ahead.
Julie Harris Oliver: When we talk about emotions at work and there, for so long has been this talk of, I mean, and it comes with a, you know, women are too emotional to lead or do whatever the thing. and emotions have no place at work. It's all rational. I know this is really old thinking and old talk. [00:11:00] however, there is a lot of anger at work and expression of anger at work, and somehow that hasn't ever really been counted as emotional. And so holding space for these things, like that's not the emotion we want everybody to be expressing, but we do wanna be able to hold space for people to process and have, thoughts and feelings about things.
Susan Lanphier: Yes. It's, I think yes, a critical differentiation is this is not about allowing people to fly off the handle and yell and all the things. This is not a, a place for inappropriate expression of emotion, and those boundaries are really important. rather having open conversations and having that environment of psychological safety so employees feel like they can say what's on their mind without feeling like they're gonna be retaliation in their career, on their [00:12:00] performance review, what have you.
Um
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, it's like allowing the space for, for people to be human
Susan Lanphier: Right. Right
Julie Harris Oliver: Bringing some humanity in there. It feels like it starts with, noticing, like when you're reacting to something strongly and then unpacking why. I have a, I have many examples. Uh, when I was in certain jobs, and I think one of them I talked about already on maybe the Mike, uh, Michael Shay's podcast. , But there have been a few times, and they always stand out to me 'cause I'm always so embarrassed afterwards, where I did get triggered by something and reacted in a way that I, if not immediately, then shortly after really regretted. But it just felt so heightened in the moment, and I was triggered by something, and always it was about, fear, I gotta say. And as you were saying, like the practice letting that take over in the moment is such a vital, , piece, [00:13:00] you know, to be able to stop and breathe and emotionally regulate. It feels like everybody's talking about emotional regulation right now. This seems to be the biggest thing
Susan Lanphier: Yes, I agree.
Julie Harris Oliver: we need to work on
Susan Lanphier: I am hearing the same and experiencing the same as well. Right
Julie Harris Oliver: What ways are you, thinking about working on emotional regulation?
Susan Lanphier: I think in my, in my personal life, definitely any relationship, any interaction, communications, um, I mean, personally, when I'm in a conversation with my husband and we have differing opinions, we have different experiences, the same thing may be happening, but we're, experiencing it two different ways.
And, those old beliefs that no longer serve me can get triggered. And, the emotional regulation comes into place when I can pause and keep my mouth shut for a few minutes or a few seconds, actually, a few moments, right? Minutes, [00:14:00] that's,
Julie Harris Oliver: win.
Susan Lanphier: yeah, minutes, that's a little bit too long.
Anything is a win. I remember when we were talking about, uh, about doing this podcast together and you were relaying a story that started with, like you got out of your car to go back with, "And another thing,"
Oh gosh. Oh.
Julie Harris Oliver: and I just, it just made me laugh because, you know, if you're ever starting a sentence with, "And you know what?" You're in trouble.
Susan Lanphier: Absolutely. That is so funny, and it's so true. And I, you know, I was gonna say embarrassed to say, but reality is that didn't happen too long ago, where it was so funny. It's like I, I walked out of the house and my... You know, prior to walking out of the house, my husband said, "Well, do we have anything to talk about?"
And I said, "No." I walk out of the house, and I stop, and I turn around, and I walk back into the house 'cause I'm like, "You know what? We do have some things to talk about." And boy, mmy
Julie Harris Oliver: know
Susan Lanphier: You know what? And, you know, check my motives. What were my motives in [00:15:00] that moment? My motive was to be right.
Julie Harris Oliver: To be
Susan Lanphier: To be right. You know, you want to hear from me, you're gonna get it.
That's exactly what happened. And, talking about, your story and that example, there's always an opportunity for repair.
Julie Harris Oliver: Mm-hmm.
Susan Lanphier: You know, I'm, I don't do this perfectly. P- Leaders learning these skills are not going to do it perfectly. It's practice. And so there's always opportunity for repair, to come back, and just say, "Hey, I did not show up the way I wanted to in that moment."
And I know you had talked with Aiko Bethea, and part of her framework in her new book is a-around the accountability, and taking accountability for the impact I had on a person. I think that is so critical in personal life, in professional life, and it doesn't matter about intention. "Well, I didn't mean to do that."
"Well, you took it the wrong way." No. It's about setting all of that stuff aside and recognizing the impact I had [00:16:00] on another person and owning that. And it, I think those are... That's something I'm working on when it comes to emotional regulation, that is for sure
Julie Harris Oliver: How do you open the conversation about impact?
Susan Lanphier: being specific When I stormed back in the house and I lit you up verbally, that was not okay. I don't wanna show up that way. You did not deserve that It's about taking the accountability for my own actions and not placing any blame whatsoever on the other person.
Doesn't matter what they did. Doesn't matter what they said to me. Doesn't matter if they called me a name
Julie Harris Oliver: There's no you made me.
Susan Lanphier: That's right. Oh, absolutely.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. There, there's a certain maturity I think, this has come up in a lot of podcasts, the maturity piece. It's, uh, it's funny, no matter how old I get, I still feel pretty immature. But little by little, we get that maturity.
Susan Lanphier: Mm-hmm.
Julie Harris Oliver: and part of it is just really owning, uh, owning all the pieces of yourself and owning your own [00:17:00] behavior and owning how you interact with other people.
And sure, like you may get triggered with stuff and you still own how you react
Susan Lanphier: Mm-hmm. And I think that's where self-compassion can come into play as well. Um, yes, owning and yet not beating yourself up at the same time. Not feeling like a piece of, you know, poo on the bottom of my shoe kind of thing. Um,
Julie Harris Oliver: the waves of regret that come to you in the middle of the night
Susan Lanphier: And again, those things are normal but comes back to the choice. Am I gonna totally react to all those things and be down in the dumps for days and not show up the way I want to because I'm full of self-pity, for example?
Or am I gonna stillbe able to say, "Gosh, I really I really screwed that up. I'm not perfect. I'm glad I owned my stuff. Opportunity to do it different next time." That
Julie Harris Oliver: I'll do better
Susan Lanphier: reframing I think is really important
Julie Harris Oliver: So where should we go from here?
Susan Lanphier: I [00:18:00] think another, another key factor in this or another thing that I like to think about is assumptions and judgment.
Julie Harris Oliver: Say more
Susan Lanphier: So if I'm in an encounter, a conversation, I may be judging that person. I may think that I know exactly where they're coming from, why they're ssayingwhy they're saying this, all those different things, judgment, judgment, and judgment.
And that blocks curiosity. That blocks an opportunity for connection, an opportunity for understanding.
Julie Harris Oliver: , Curiosity piece I think is so important 'cause the, the very act of being curious at all, like, what is behind that? Or what do you... I sense that you're actually really hurt. Like, what happened? Like, any sort of curiosity towards somebody else's reaction I think is really disarming.
Susan Lanphier: Absolutely
Julie Harris Oliver: So it, it serves so many [00:19:00] purposes 'cause one, you're, you're interrupting your own judgment and your own assumptions of what's going on with them, but you're also disarming them 'cause then they don't have to fight you, , 'cause you're curious about their experience.
Susan Lanphier: Right. Right.
Julie Harris Oliver: I mean, they, they still might choose to fight you, but
Susan Lanphier: Right.
Julie Harris Oliver: they don't have
Susan Lanphier: One thing that, that I've been taught is, um, don't give them anything to push against. Don't put up a lot of my own resistance because then it becomes about what I'm doing and not the real issue. I mean, it just leads to a tangent. It can lead to a tangent
Julie Harris Oliver: if you're, like if you're feeling, um, sick, like you have a cold and, you know, people in your family are dismissing you like, "Oh, you don't feel that bad. You're fine," then you gotta really dig into the cold.
Susan Lanphier: Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah
Julie Harris Oliver: you gotta really be like so sick, even maybe sicker than you actually feel because no one believes you and you gotta dig in. I think it's like that
Susan Lanphier: Yes. And I think too, humans want to be seen and they want to be heard.[00:20:00]
Julie Harris Oliver: Mm-hmm
Susan Lanphier: And so coming at a person with youryour own biases and your own judgments, even though you may not even be aware of them, coming at a person puts them on the defensive. And like I said, then all of a sudden we're down a tangent that isn't really about the, the issue at hand
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, it's not about the thing
Susan Lanphier: Right
Julie Harris Oliver: So in a workplace, whether you're a leader or not actually, 'cause there's, um... It's very easy to get lost in we have all these things to do. I don't have time to deal with your whatever. Just do the thing, would ya?
Susan Lanphier: Yep
Julie Harris Oliver: Um- But I feel like in today's world, in today's workplace, that it's not so much a luxury to slow down. feels really imperative right now. Are you seeing that too?
Susan Lanphier: Yes, very much so. In fact, I was talking with a client yesterday and, you know, career, um, career growth, next steps, [00:21:00] where does she wanna take her career, feeling stagnant, wanting to be more strategic, all these things. And we've talked about, "Okay, let's block off some time on your calendar." I mean, she came up with that idea, you know.
And, um, and yet that hasn't happened yet because there's so many things that happen day in and day out that require her attention, pulled in a million different directions, leading a team, and issues are popping up. And that is the reality
Julie Harris Oliver: Prioritizing yourself is hard
Susan Lanphier: Very hard. Yeah
Julie Harris Oliver: and important I wonder how, how is she working on being able to do that?
Susan Lanphier: She put blocks some time on her calendar every Friday to prioritize herself and being able to think strategically, rise above the weeds, right? And, , you know, it was... Yesterday it was, it was a recommitment to doing that and recognizing how important that is [00:22:00] to her to be able to do that for her own professional growth and for where she wants to go.
And so I think a lot of times it is a recommitment and
some self-compassion. "Okay, I didn't get to that goal over the last two weeks. I'm gonna still practice and work on delegating things and commit to making it happen."
Julie Harris Oliver: I met a client today who was very clear about, "Here are the priorities in my life. Time with myself, time with my children, time with my husband, time exercising.
Susan Lanphier: Mm-hmm
Julie Harris Oliver: I don't work after hours." She has a huge job, and the fact that she said time with myself first, like I was stunned. I don't think I've ever said that in my life. And I was like, I, I will take a note.
Susan Lanphier: Hey
Julie Harris Oliver: able to prpri-prioritize time with yourself when you have small children and a big job and a husband and all the things
Susan Lanphier: Right.
Julie Harris Oliver: Wow
Susan Lanphier: That is amazing. I love that and admire her [00:23:00] for that. And I think that's where a lot of the solution lies. You know, it's about identity too. I think, in that example, she can or could feel pulled in many different different directions.
Julie Harris Oliver: Oh, she definitely does
Susan Lanphier: Suree. And recognizing that she has agency, she has choices, and can set boundaries for herself and for others, it's very empowering
Julie Harris Oliver: And the conviction that I know that I am going to be better for all these other people
Susan Lanphier: right.
Julie Harris Oliver: time for myself
Susan Lanphier: Isn't that the truth?
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah
Susan Lanphier: Right
That's really important
Julie Harris Oliver: So if we're looking at the, as you said, the power of the pause and what can happen if you allow yourself to take those pauses, what is something you would leave us with about that?
Something to think about if someone's considering trying to incorporate pauses into their interactions.
Susan Lanphier: I think the main thing that, that is important [00:24:00] is the pause creates opportunity for connection
And isn't that what humans want, is connection?
Julie Harris Oliver: are wired for
Susan Lanphier: That's right. That's right
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah
Susan Lanphier: So for me, and I believe for others that I've coached, it's worth the investment. It's worth the time, the practice to provide extra opportunity for connection with people
Julie Harris Oliver: How can people find you?
Susan Lanphier: Well, I do have my own coaching company, Susan Lanphier Coaching, and my website
is susanlcoaching.com. I'm also on LinkedIn, and I invite folks to, join me for a complimentary Align and Accelerate call, is what I call it.
Julie Harris Oliver: and accelerate.
Susan Lanphier: Um,
Julie Harris Oliver: what's that??
Susan Lanphier: That is aligning, values definitely come into [00:25:00] play, aligning how you want to sshowwant to show up in your life, in your work, and then coming up with one clear small action that can be implemented today, in the near future, in order to help move forward
Julie Harris Oliver: Great. I think people should take you up on that.
Susan Lanphier: Thank you. Oh, the folks can schedule that through my website or LinkedIn as well
Julie Harris Oliver: Okay, I'll link to all those things in the show notes.
Susan Lanphier: Thank you
Julie Harris Oliver: Susan Lanphier, thank you so much for doing this
Susan Lanphier: You're so welcome. I appreciate the opportunity to connect with you
Julie Harris Oliver: Likewise
Speaker: This has been Deep Work Out Loud. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. I'd like to thank Susan Lanphier for joining the podcast. If any of this resonates with you, please subscribe and leave a review at all the podcast places or share it with a friend. If you'd like to work with me, you can find me at julieharrisoliver.com.
And let me leave you with this invitation. Where in your life could you practice pausing [00:26:00] and responding rather than reacting? I'm sure there are plenty of opportunities that come up. So how can you start to notice, when you react maybe sooner than you would like and try to implement a pause right there?
Okay. Try some things. Report back. Thanks for listening. See you next time