EP 24 Redefining Leadership Value: Beyond the Checklist with Jennifer Tankersley
Julie Harris Oliver: Welcome to Deep Work Out Loud, the thinking that fuels our life, our work, and our leadership. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. This is the podcast where I sit with another coach or another professional, and we do some work around a single concept, a piece of inspiration, a topic that we're thinking about that's coming up in coaching, and if we're really lucky, while we're talking about it, we might demonstrate what coaching might look and feel like, but we'll see how this goes.
This whole thing is an experiment, and with any luck, you will leave with something that you can apply and use in your work or your life or both. Today, I'm here with Jennifer Tankersley. is an executive coach, leadership advisor, and lifelong learner devoted to understanding what enables exceptional leadership in complex environments. With decades of experience working at the intersection of strategy, transformation, and han development, partners with leaders and teams to expand their capacity to lead with clarity, confidence, and [00:01:00] meaningful impact. Known for her ability to connect ideas across disciplines, Jennifer brings together insights from adult development, leadership theory, neuroscience, embodied awareness, and systems thinking to illinate what it truly means to be han in positions of responsibility.
Her integrative approach shaped both her coaching practice and her upcoming book to be released in early 2027. I hope you will come back and talk about that. Where she weaves diverse fields into a coherent framework for leading with greater awareness, resiliency, and possibility. At the heart of Jennifer's work is the belief that leadership becomes more powerful when it becomes more han. When leaders deepen their understanding of themselves, the people they lead, and the systems they shape, they create the conditions for stronger performance, wiser decisions, and more conscious, sustainable change. She lives in San Diego, California, because she is very lucky, and she's the proud mother of three exceptional hans. [00:02:00] Hello, Jennifer.
Jennifer Tankersley: Why, hello, Julie
Julie Harris Oliver: It's so nice to have you here
Jennifer Tankersley: Yeah. Thank you for the invitation. It's really a delight
Julie Harris Oliver: So tell us what brought you to this
work
Jennifer Tankersley: Ah. Uh, to coaching, I, I asse you mean by that. Yeah. Yeah. , you know, I was sitting with that question and, uh, it was a pretty windy path. , I probably, you know, I, I could not have guessed it, but it probably was inevitable.
Julie Harris Oliver: Hmm
Jennifer Tankersley: , meaning, , there were a lot of, looking back, a lot of, uh, sort of trailheads along the way that I can see now were leading me here.
, but, professionally, much of my career was spent in consulting, management consulting, really focused on strategy, operations, very data-focused. , but looking [00:03:00] back, I was always gravitating to the han aspect of the work that we were doing. I'm fascinated by hans.
Julie Harris Oliver: Mm-hmm
Jennifer Tankersley: I think they are just delightful.
, and, , and so, you know, in the midst of strategy, operations change, I would often find myself one-on-one in conversation with leaders asking them questions like, "What is it we're trying to do here? In service of what?
Julie Harris Oliver: Hmm
Jennifer Tankersley: How are we gonna do it? Who do you or how do you need to show up in order to make this happen?"
And I found those conversations incredibly, , fulfilling, impactful. But it wasn't until I started working with my own coach that I got clarity around, "Oh, wait. This is something. I actually might be good at it, and I could probably learn some skills." And so, it was [00:04:00] a- around that time that I found the Hudson Institute
Julie Harris Oliver: It's always funny, , when people talk about coming to coaching, and it's always like connecting the dots backwards,
Jennifer Tankersley: Mm-hmm
Julie Harris Oliver: right? It's like, obviously I'm here,
Jennifer Tankersley: Mm-hmm.
Julie Harris Oliver: so clear when you look backwards
Jennifer Tankersley: Yeah, for sure
Jennifer's Path to Coaching
Julie Harris Oliver: So what were you thinking about for us to unpack today?
Jennifer Tankersley: Well, I think, , we got here because of something I had posted on LinkedIn, and then you sent a, a really lovely note saying that had resonated for you, , which, yeah, which really m-meant a lot to me. And it is a conversation that I'm in with clients, but I think it captures a lot of aspects of what leaders are struggling with.
So maybe we start there.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, for sure. It, it struck me because I'm also in those conversations with leaders, and you were able to articulate it in such a way that was like, yes, [00:05:00] that is the thing.
Jennifer Tankersley: Mm. Shall, shall we tell people what it's about?
Julie Harris Oliver: So what is the thing? Let's just talk about it for half an hour and never
Jennifer Tankersley: Yeah. We'll let them guess. , yeah, so, so I, I actually started this, this piece, this article probably three or four years ago, and then life got busy and I stuck it into a folder, and I pulled it back up, I don't know, a couple months ago and I was like, hold on a second. Kind of that like looking in hindsight.
I was touching on something that I'm seeing a lot, continue to see a lot of with my clients, maybe seeing more of with my clients, and it's actually connected to a lot of things that I'm studying, writing about in other areas. So the, the article really was born out of a conversation I had with a client who was really feeling, I think, overwhelmed or doubt, [00:06:00] frustrated because she didn't feel like she was creating value.
She was questioning herself. And I was really struck by that because it didn't add up for me. It just didn't add up. So the article is really around why senior leaders or leaders in general often feel like they're not doing enough, right? That enoughness and, , and some ideas about what might really be going on
Julie Harris Oliver: It's that feeling of I've been busy all day long, I've been talking to people constantly, and I haven't gotten anything done.
Jennifer Tankersley: Yes. And, and
Julie Harris Oliver: single thing off my list
Jennifer Tankersley: and that's literally how the conversation started.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah
Jennifer Tankersley: and, uh, and she was on the East Coast, I'm on the West Coast, and we'd gotten onto a call. It was the end of her day, and she opened with this like, "Oh my God, I got nothing done today." And I was like, "Really? Tell me more. What you been doing?"[00:07:00]
And she proceeded to list off all of these really, what sounded like, uh, important and impactful conversations, considerations, , reflections, but she hadn't crossed anything off of this list that she'd become very attached to. And, , and so there was this, there, there was this both this cognitive sort of disconnect, like is the, the list in charge or like what is it you're really here to do?
And we started to unpack that. , but there was also a, what I would describe as sort of a, a wiring piece, a full body felt sense. So there's the cognitive piece, right? Like I didn't do these things. Do being the word. And, , but there was also this like , this overwhelm felt sense of I [00:08:00] didn't, I didn't, I don't sense that feeling of accomplishment, of significance that I wanna feel.
And, and they were related, but they, it was creating a sort of a vibration in her that, that felt really kind of outdated to what the organization and what her leadership was, was asking of her.
Julie Harris Oliver: So how did you start to define that? Because had the same conversation. My husband just got a promotion at a much bigger job, and he said the same thing. "I'm, I'm so busy all day long, I can never
get to my work." like, "Dude, your work has changed. This is now your work."
Jennifer Tankersley: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. So how did
Jennifer Tankersley: Yeah
Julie Harris Oliver: start to define that togethe
The Value Equation Framework
Julie Harris Oliver: r?
Jennifer Tankersley: Well, you know, in, in hindsight it's kind of funny. I-- So I went to math, , and maybe my kids at the time were, I don't know, maybe I was helping with like some arithmetic. But I all of a [00:09:00] sudden saw this as
Julie Harris Oliver: Oh,
Jennifer Tankersley: a, what's that?
Julie Harris Oliver: did you say math?
Jennifer Tankersley: Yes, math. Why did you think?
Julie Harris Oliver: you went to mass. was like, "Oh
Jennifer Tankersley: Yes. Sometimes that can help, but then in this situation, I went to arithmetic.
Julie Harris Oliver: Okay, got it. Got it. Math
Jennifer Tankersley: , yes. , a picture came to my mind of those value functions.
Julie Harris Oliver: Mm-hmm
Jennifer Tankersley: You know, X is a function of A, B, and C, right?
Julie Harris Oliver: What's the
Jennifer Tankersley: And what's the equation? Because we were talking about her value, and it's like we didn't quite have the, the equation figured out.
Your value is a function of what? And so we started to like break it down 'cause she was really indexing on the W, which I call, the, the, the, the big W, the work that she did, the things that she could tangibly see an outcome. Yep, exactly. We could check it off a list.
Julie Harris Oliver: [00:10:00] Yeah.
Jennifer Tankersley: I did that. I did that, right?
Write a deck.
Julie Harris Oliver: Here's my deck
Jennifer Tankersley: here's my... , so that is a component of how value could be created in the workplace. , but we started to say, "Okay, so but, but what else?" Right? And what else now? And so we started to unpack what she was doing in all of those calls, right? And so some of it, she was what I called the E, which was she was enabling work to get done.
She was showing up and, and creating the conditions. She was coaching people. She was, ,
Julie Harris Oliver: clearing obstacles
Jennifer Tankersley: c- she was creating... helping to, to, to define and get clarity, right? And then we were like, "Okay, so what else were you doing?" Well, she was, w- she was, she was sort of a connector of, it was a big global company and she was sort of leading s-some really important initiatives, so she was getting some data in, she was passing some...
So she was sort of [00:11:00] this flow of information that was coming through her. So there was, we put I as one of the factors. And then there was this space of like coming to the so what's of it. And a lot of her job was requiring more of her holding space for what was it that really needed to happen?
What were those connections? How did that information apply to whom, and how might she support that? So that was another one. And then when I went back to revisit the equation and the article, I realized so much of what I w- I've been doing and so much of what I think is required to create value from leadership is this piece around what I'm calling S, which is self-leadership.
This piece around do you have the spaciousness to kind of make sure that you, the, [00:12:00] the greatest tool you have access to is - being... I- i-is showing up with clarity with openness with intentionality. So I added that. So - I'm sure there's probably other components, but those seem to be the five major components that the leaders I work with are oft- often sort of, you know, pulling on to create value.
The work that they do, the work they enable others to do, the information or the learning , that they have or that they're helping to create, the reflection, the, the so what, the, the pause and consideration, and then the self-leadership and, and the regulation that's really required right now
Julie Harris Oliver: It's the whole thing. , not the whole thing. It's all these parts, but it's
Jennifer Tankersley: Oh, yeah
Making the Invisible Visible
Julie Harris Oliver: And so there you also use that phrase in your article that we [00:13:00] use in coaching anyway, which is making the invisible visible.
Jennifer Tankersley: Hmm.
Julie Harris Oliver: But when you're talking about those kind of intangible things that take up so much of a leader's time, how are you making those things visible?
Jennifer Tankersley: Hmm. You mean those, those different variables? Are we making those? Yeah. So, one of the things, you know, at the simplest, simplest level, I think what we do as coaches is help our leaders show up in purpose and on purpose, right?
Julie Harris Oliver: Say
Jennifer Tankersley: Getting clearer in purpose and on purpose Right? So getting clear on what is it I'm here to do?
And that could be big P purpose, but it could be like in this moment, in this meeting, what is it I'm here to do? And then how do I need to show up in service of that, right? And so some of the ways that we make , those components, those value [00:14:00] drivers visible is we take stock at, at-- take stock of what is it you're here to do?
What is this moment, right? What is it asking of you? Back to those early conversations I used to have with leaders when we were talking about implementing a new strategy or creating some change. What, what is your com- what is your part of that what is the thing that you uniquely do to, like, sort of pull the lever to make this happen?
And what can you draw upon to do that? And when we start to really look at that what are the things that you're uniquely, uh, able to do at an enterprise level? See a lot of the dots, right? Take those in, make sense of them create the conditions for people to do good work, provide the clarity for them, right?
, and create [00:15:00] the conditions within yourself to show up in service of that
Julie Harris Oliver: Someone else can probably make the deck
Jennifer Tankersley: Probably. I'm always like, it, it is a really helpful question. Could somebody else do that?
Julie Harris Oliver: , are distracting yourself from something doing that deck?
Jennifer Tankersley: Yeah. Yeah
Julie Harris Oliver: And it's when you say you, what do you uniquely bring to this?
And I would add, and also, and maybe the same thing, w- what is the thing that only you can do?
Jennifer Tankersley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's what, I think that's what, what we're trying to get at, right?
Julie Harris Oliver: And so this speaks to me of a certain level of maturity
Jennifer Tankersley: Hmm.
Julie Harris Oliver: to even get to the point of even in the just the micro, what do I bring to this meeting?
What is my purpose here in this meeting? Is such a different perspective than [00:16:00] am I gonna do in this meeting? What, what am I gonna say? Am I gonna be smart?
Am I gonna,
Jennifer Tankersley: yeah
Julie Harris Oliver: But what am I here to do in this meeting? The, the setting aside of the ego to be in service of
what what needs to happen。
Jennifer Tankersley: Yeah, I think there's, there's a, there is a, a sort of a vertical development or maturity to be able to anchor on sort of that in which I'm here to do, right? What am I in service of that's bigger than my own protection, my own sense of self? But I, but I think that also speaks to there's a level of, , groundedness,
Julie Harris Oliver: Mm-hmm.
Jennifer Tankersley: A level of enough safety, enough sort of rootedness within ourselves in order to do that.
Because even some of the most mature leaders I know today are finding themselves in some pretty reactive patterns because [00:17:00] of the amount of sort of overwhelm, the pace, the strain that we fall back into our reactive strategies, right? And so it takes both a a level of, of sort of inner knowing that I, I am enough, right?
And, and I am here in service of something bigger than my own self-protection, but also an embodied enough clarity, enough safety, enough groundedness to be able to catch ourselves going into patterns of sort of self-protection or ego to notice when we are reacting versus choosing to notice when we are opening up to what is actually here, what is really here, and creating the conditions for, for, for that co-regulation for others to do the same
Safety, Groundedness & Reactive Patterns
Julie Harris Oliver: Mm-hmm. The, the word [00:18:00] safety
Jennifer Tankersley: there。
Julie Harris Oliver: I think is doing a lot of
Jennifer Tankersley: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: From very high-level leaders "I'm still afraid of getting fired." Like, irrationally right?
Yeah.
And so to be
Jennifer Tankersley: Yeah
Julie Harris Oliver: sit in whatever the condition is in a really open, centered, grounded way What methods do you use for that?
Jennifer Tankersley: Mm-hmm. Uh, uh, my, , one, I think starting with some compassion and honoring that we are of, of our hanness. Like, we are designed brilliantly for survival, which means that our brains and our bodies were magnificently , , [00:19:00] developed to constantly be attuning to, "Am I safe enough or not?" So that's just, that's, that's, that's our han design, right?
It is our species design. And so some compassion that w- whether we're aware of it or not, we are scanning for that all of the time,
Julie Harris Oliver: Oh,
Jennifer Tankersley: and the fact of the matter is we live and work in environments that are sending all sorts of cues that we're probably not very safe. And so we have to be really conscious of what is it that we can anchor in that feels safe enough?
What of that sense of threat is real versus imagined? Our, our bodies cannot tell the difference between a saber-toothed tiger charging at us and a story that we're not good enough and people are just gonna figure it out one day. They both feel overwhelming and threatening, and [00:20:00] so we have to be working with...
this is the, the more that we know ourselves, know what our patterns are, and can find ways through the breath through movement, through embodiment, through the stories we tell ourselves to find e- enough, because, uh, uh, nobody expects leadership to be easy, right? It, it... But, but, but, but we cannot be operating in a sustained level of threat, a felt sense of threat all the time and show at our best.
We just can't. So we have to figure out ways to let our, our body settle, right? And our mind settle, so that we can restore and come back for the hard work.
How are you experiencing that, either for yourself or with your clients?
Julie Harris Oliver: I'm seeing it a lot with clients. There's one right now I'm thinking about who, whose job is [00:21:00] very much that, that equation
you laid out. And yet her boss to see the checklist,
Jennifer Tankersley: Mm-hmm.
Julie Harris Oliver: I actually sent her your article.
Jennifer Tankersley: Oh, lovely
Julie Harris Oliver: uh, so now we're talking about if she can really internalize that equation for herself, and there may also be some managing up that needs to happen.
Jennifer Tankersley: Sure
Julie Harris Oliver: So that's kinda... That's the challenge at the moment of
Jennifer Tankersley: mmh。
Julie Harris Oliver: figuring out how to communicate that to a leader who seems to be very focused on everybody's checklists
Jennifer Tankersley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And, and do you think she and her leader have alignment around what her role is in the, in the, in sort of the, sort of the charter or the purpose of that role?
Julie Harris Oliver: No, and that's part of the,
Jennifer Tankersley: Hmm.
Julie Harris Oliver: part of the
Jennifer Tankersley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, [00:22:00] I often find that those conversations, like starting there,
Julie Harris Oliver: Mm-hmm.
Jennifer Tankersley: right? What, w- w- like, what do we think she's here to do?
And, and, and, and it can be a, a co-creation. I used to use a, a, a, a process called role chartering, where we'd sort of I'd have a leader take a first stab at w- what's your job title? What do you think that actually means? Not as a job description, but as a sort of living, breathing purpose.
What is it that, with that title, what is it that you are here to do? And, and take a first stab at that, and then take it to their manager and say, "Okay, where do we s- see, where do we see this the same? Where do we see it differently?" Right? Like h- uh, I often find, I don't know about you, but, , coming out of coaching conversations, I'm often [00:23:00] like, "So who, who do you actually need to be talking to?"
Right?
Julie Harris Oliver: Right?
Jennifer Tankersley: what is the conversation that isn't happening and that might help the situation? Because we are-- There's systems. They're not leading alone, right? But, but often starting with that question of what is it that this role is doing? And even looking at it in the context of the broader system relative to other people.
What is it that you own? What is it you share, right? What does that look like? What does it require in terms of those competencies or those variables in order to deliver on that? And so having a framework to have a, a really thoughtful conversation around that alignment not only provides sort of the clarity and the North Star, but also creates a sort of felt sense of safety, right?
"Oh, okay." "We're on the same page here." Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: it's crazy-making
Jennifer Tankersley: It's crazy. It's so much. [00:24:00] I, I feel like, like clarity, clarity, clarity. , in a world of, of a lot of, of uncertainty. A- a- and, and w- I think we used to think about clarity of like, I can see the path and I can see the answer, and let's go do that. In, in the, in the uncertainty, in the complexity, in the chaos in which many leaders are, are leading, that external clarity, the, the, the the destination, , and how we're going to get there, , trying to anchor on that actually might be futile in many situations.
But clarity around what is it we're, what is it we're trying to do What is, what is my part? What is your part? How do we know when we're w- when it's working? How do we know when it's not? How are we gonna get back aligned with each other when it feels off? That level of clarity I think can create a really a felt sense of safe enough.
I [00:25:00] think of the, the eye, it's like the getting the, the eye in the middle of the storm, right? In the middle of the... Right? Like that stillness, that quiet, that, that clarity. And, and it requires conversation, and it requires a grounded conversation, listening and pausing and and hearing one another
Julie Harris Oliver: I gotta think that would help both of them
Jennifer Tankersley: Hmm. Mm.
Urgency: Real vs. Reactive
Jennifer Tankersley: I think the other piece that's coming up when you say that, and, and specifically about a leader who's like, "Come on, people. Check, check, check, check, check." Sometimes when I talk about this, this concept of getting clear on what value, I, I bring back the, I think it's called the Eisenhower Matrix, which is that two-by-two, like spending time on what's important ver- urgent, important.
And I think it's a, I think it's a really helpful, simple tool. You
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah,
Jennifer Tankersley: I'm ex-BCG, or we, we love [00:26:00] our two-by-twos. , but it's-- But, but unless we have ways of defining what those mean and getting clear on those, it can be really confusing. So when you say, "Okay, let's, let's graph out what are the things that are most important?"
If you don't have clarity on your value proposition, it's really hard to answer that question. So this first article was really about how do we get enough clarity around the value, how you're creating value, so that we can determine what's most important. The other part of that, that two-by-two is w- the urgency.
And I don't know what you're experiencing with your clients, but I'm experiencing clients who are literally opening up like everything's really urgent right now. And I'm like, "Really?" Again, "Really? Everything?" so I was thinking about what actually makes something urgent, and, and there's this sort of unconscious narrative.
Urgency is like, "I must do or [00:27:00] else." Right? Or else. And right now there-- And, and sometimes there is a, a, a real cost to that or else, right? There is a deadline, and we lose the opportunity or, , you know, there's, uh, uh, something will not work if it doesn't come together by this point, or there's some danger, you know, if we don't get this information out in time.
There, there are some significant or elses
Julie Harris Oliver: I wonder if a lot of times the or else is, or else I can't check it off my list.
Jennifer Tankersley: Right. Right?
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah
Jennifer Tankersley: Right. And if we go back to that idea of reactivity, reactivity, when we are triggered, we are moving into typically kind of a fight or flight. Those have action. They have an energy of action. And so our [00:28:00] bodies are like, "I'm in fight or I need action.
Julie Harris Oliver: Make this feeling stop.
Jennifer Tankersley: Make this feeling stop." And we have b- been, been very programmed that that to-do list, and we know that there's neurochemicals that kind of flood our system when we get th- that action has an outcome that feels good, that help calm that feeling of urgency.
So yeah, go ahead
Julie Harris Oliver: , I'm just thinking about how much, the world has done this to us.
thinking about... I keep thinking they... 'Cause I'm... Yes, I am old. I am not that old. My first job was transcribing letters for a president of a company, 'cause it was really before everyone was writing up their own emails and you're sending, you know, 200 a day. If we sent out seven letters in a day,
that was a really full day.
Jennifer Tankersley: Wow
Julie Harris Oliver: And [00:29:00] so to look at the exponential
Jennifer Tankersley: Yes, pace.
Julie Harris Oliver: pace,
Jennifer Tankersley: pace,
Julie Harris Oliver: have to accomplish in a day, yes, we've all been running on adrenaline and
Jennifer Tankersley: Yeah
Julie Harris Oliver: at such a different pace than we even did earlier in our
careers.
Jennifer Tankersley: Yes
Julie Harris Oliver: so once you're... I think, I think it's related, right?
You're used
to this,
Jennifer Tankersley: Yeah
Julie Harris Oliver: this,
So then to slow down again, really uncomfortable
Jennifer Tankersley: For sure. I think that's a, such a beautiful,
visual image of what we're talking about, right? And how much of that is because it truly is required that 200 emails are now required versus seven? Or is it , culture? Is it pattern? Or is it sort of, , a reactivity,
Julie Harris Oliver: Mm-hmm.
Jennifer Tankersley: right? So one of the things I've been really thinking about, and , I, I think I'm gonna write about next, is how do we [00:30:00] really discern where is the urgency coming from?
Is it a, a true external or else that has significant consequences, and we need to respond to that? Or is it an internal frequency or even a shared frequency of , of urgency more of a reactive pattern than an actual requirement, an actual need? And I think beginning to attune to that, getting quieter to i- and, and creating enough space, like slowing down before we speed up
Julie Harris Oliver: Having the t- taking the time to even discern
that
Jennifer Tankersley: Yeah. Yeah. I was meeting with a client that I see in, in person and, her assistant was saying something to me about, "Oh, yeah, we've been just running around." I went, uh... And, and she said, "Everything's urgent." And I, I kind of gave her a little... [00:31:00] I said, "Uh, is it?" And she said, " "No, it's not. If I create a little pause or if I like, like, it's...
But, but it feels really urgent." And I was like, "Okay, that's really important information. What do we do?"
Julie Harris Oliver: I
Jennifer Tankersley: 嗯。 Exactly
Recovery & Restoration for Leaders
Julie Harris Oliver: about, leaders having to take the time to recover in the same way that elite athletes do. And the, the recovery is in the rest. It's not in the
grind
Jennifer Tankersley: Yeah. , you know, we talk about, , resiliency is our ability to push, push, push through, right? But, but, or, or endure, right? We're just kinda, "I'm so strong," right? And, ,
Julie Harris Oliver: I stamina
Jennifer Tankersley: and right. And, and it's just not sustainable, at least not in a way that brings forth [00:32:00] our highest intelligence, our highest capabilities, right?
Julie Harris Oliver: Not
Jennifer Tankersley: So no
Julie Harris Oliver: like maybe 20 years ago you could push through 'cause it wasn't
as much to push
Jennifer Tankersley: Yeah. Well, maybe there are more natural periods of, of re- restoration, right? But with the 24/7, right? And even when we turn off work, we got news, we've got fa- right? There's just a lot. But our bodies, you know, w- when you-- There's this amazing video of , a polar bear that is sort of being followed. Have you seen this one?
He's being followed by a helicopter. They're doing, you know, some animal research, and they're trying to tag him for research, and so they're, they're ... And he's running and running and running from it because he feels the chase, and they, they, they shoot him with a dart to tranquilize him so they can tag him.
It was a, it was a, it was a, a organization that was in service of the animals, not [00:33:00] against. But, but regardless, it, it felt dangerous to the polar bear. And so there's this person who , describes what's happened. So they come up, the polar bear is, you know, in this kind of s- frozen state, but as they're starting to wake up from the sedation, you can see the breath changing, and they start to shake.
And basically, what they're doing is they're shaking off all of that activation that they felt before they were sedated, and they're shaking it off. And as they shake, they begin to yawn, and then they have a big sigh, and then their breath comes back to normal. And it's a beautiful demonstration of what our, our, our nervous systems are d- d- designed to naturally do. But we have, as hans, have taught ourselves to sort of control ourselves and just push through and not do that. And so, like, athletes know it's so acute. They can see that their bodies can't do that. For leaders, it's the same thing. [00:34:00] We have to figure out how to restore.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, you don't
get better through the grind
Jennifer Tankersley: Yeah. And the world today requires , the best of what we have to offer, right? Our han intelligence to really sense into, to, to feel into, to see what is emerging because it's not, it's, it's not predictable, right? It's n- We've never been here before. So we have to be grounded enough and resourced enough to pause, pay attention, make sense of, and then determine right action, and that requires clarity, back to this clarity of what it is we're here to do, and on purpose and in purpose, right?
On purpose, and the conditions to be able to do it[00:35:00]
And that's the job I think a coach is, is we invite a, a pause for that work. I, , I often say, you know, my clients come in like they're, they've been holding their breath since we spoke last, and they exhale, right? And we settle, and then we go, "Okay, what's really here? What's most important?" And, and learning to do that outside of coaching as well, right?
It needs to be part of a leadership practice, I think, because it has to happen more than once every two weeks or whatever that cadence might be.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah.
It's a big
Jennifer Tankersley: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: It's a
big job.
Jennifer Tankersley: Mm.
Julie Harris Oliver: What, , being mindful of the time,
Jennifer Tankersley: Hmm.
Julie Harris Oliver: what would you kind of leave us with?
Jennifer Tankersley: Hmm.
A- as coaches, I would leave us with, Sort of the invitation, one, the work starts with us. Getting clear on what it is we [00:36:00] are here to do for our clients, and getting clear on what is our system, how is our system, and how do we, you know, self as coach, how do we need to show up to create those conditions for our clients to do the work?
and that takes a level of clarity, a level of intentionality, a level of sort of self-care. , and when we do it for ourselves, I think we create the conditions and we inspire the leaders we work with to do the same for themselves. I often say, "I wish I knew when I was leading a, you know, uh, teams and organizations, I wish I knew then what I know now as a coach."
Like, it was not a nice to have to create pause, to create safety, to tend to myself, to get that clarity. It is actually my job. And, and it became very clear as a coach, in order to be a [00:37:00] transformational coach, you have to do that. But the same is true for leaders.
Julie Harris Oliver: , and that is the point.
That is the job That
Jennifer Tankersley: That's the job
I often tell my clients, like,
"Let's pull out your job description, and if you had to add a bullet of like, you know, those, you know, like, the, the client or this person must be able to, what would the-- what's not there that needs to be added?"
Julie Harris Oliver: I go see
Jennifer Tankersley: That has to do with this.
Hmm.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, I remember when I had a big job running around and not, not pausing ever, not processing anything until I laid my head down to
go to sleep,
Jennifer Tankersley: All right.
Julie Harris Oliver: up for hours just processing
Jennifer Tankersley: then it made for really awful sleep.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, really terrible sleep, and then get up the next day and do it again.
Yeah.
I wish, I wish I
Jennifer Tankersley: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: I know now.
Jennifer Tankersley: Yeah,
yeah
Julie Harris Oliver: Jennifer, thank you so much for doing this. I continue to learn so much from you every time I talk to you or see you or any of those
things. [00:38:00]
Jennifer Tankersley: Thank you
Julie Harris Oliver: And I will link to the article in the show notes, and I share your article from your website, but how else can people find you?
Jennifer Tankersley: LinkedIn.
Julie Harris Oliver: Mm-hmm
Jennifer Tankersley: , and I don't really have a social media presence outside of that.
Julie Harris Oliver: Okay
Jennifer Tankersley: so LinkedIn, on my website uh, and hopefully coming in Q1, , we'll might be having some announcements about a, a book.
Julie Harris Oliver: I'm excited about that.
What's the name of your website?
Jennifer Tankersley: Uh, The Tankersley Group.
Julie Harris Oliver: Wonderful.
Jennifer Tankersley: Mm-hmm.
Julie Harris Oliver: Thank
you so much. This was
Jennifer Tankersley: Thank you for this. I've really enjoyed it. , I really appreciate the invitation and, and, , it means a lot that the article resonated for you and for your clients
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. We need to continue to
share it.
Jennifer Tankersley: Thank you.
Julie Harris Oliver: All
right.
Jennifer Tankersley: Thank you.
Julie Harris Oliver: saying yes.
Jennifer Tankersley: Are so welcome
[00:39:00]
This has been Deep Work Out Loud. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. I'd like to thank Jennifer Tankersley for joining the podcast. If any of this resonates with you, please subscribe, leave a review at all the podcast places, and please share this episode with a friend. If you'd like to work with me, you can find me at julieharrisoliver.com. And let me leave you with this invitation: What is it you are being asked to do in this moment? What is your piece to create, and how do you need to show up in service of that? What levers might you pull? Take this on as an experiment. Try some things. Think about it. Report back. Thanks for listening. See you next time