EP 3 Integrating Coaching in Leadership with Abbie Young

Julie Harris Oliver: [00:00:00] Welcome to Deep Work Out Loud, the thinking that fuels our life, our work, and our leadership. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. This is the podcast where I sit with another professional coach and we do some work around a single concept, a piece of inspiration, a topic we've seen come up in coaching.

If we're really lucky while we're talking about it, we might demonstrate what coaching might look like and feel like, and we'll see how it goes. It's all an experiment. With any luck, you'll leave with something you can apply and use in your work, your life, or both. And today I am here with Abbie Young.

Abbie Young is an executive and leadership coach who has spent more than 15 years working with high performing individuals and teams across several industries, from elite athletics and nonprofits to higher education and consulting. As founder and CEO of AGYL coaching and consulting. Abbie works primarily with young adults and professionals as they navigate a variety of challenges and changes from their initial transition into the workforce and making decisions around career paths [00:01:00] and trajectories to leading a team for the first time.

In defining their leadership style and values to career transitions. She studied applied positive psychology in grad school with the goal of understanding how to help people thrive and draws on the full extent of her background to bring unique blend of rigor and warmth to her work. Hi Abbie.

Abbie Young: Hi, Julie. Thank you for having me. Thank

Julie Harris Oliver: you for coming.

Abbie Young: I'm really excited.

Julie Harris Oliver: Before we dig in, can you tell me what led you to coaching?

Abbie Young: Yes, and I'll spare you the full, long story. So I, I was coaching athletics for many years. I was a rower in college, , and after college was coaching. High performing youth athletes and COVID hit.

And that led me to my master's degree and applied positive psychology because I realized pretty early on [00:02:00] in the pandemic that there was so much value and my ability to mentor and guide and help the young women that I was coaching outside of the. Prac daily practices and races and things like that, and felt called to be able to help them outside of that.

So I did some research, spoke to some various people, all of whom recommended my master's program, , at the University of Pennsylvania, the Master of Applied Positive Psychology. And while I was there. I was like, okay, this is great, and what the heck am I going to do with all of this stuff that I'm learning?

And I spoke to a fellow classmate of mine, a woman by the name of Eileen Schafer, who works out at Silicon Valley change in California. She had recommended to me that I look into executive coaching, explained to me that it was an area where people tend to intersect with positive psychology and there's a lot of integration of positive [00:03:00] psychology theories and practices and tenets in the space of executive coaching.

So here I am, fast tracks several years later, but truly all thanks to Eileen.

Julie Harris Oliver: Amazing.

Abbie Young: Yeah.

Julie Harris Oliver: So what did you wanna dig into today?

Abbie Young: I would love, first of all, I loved your intro because it's relevant. You mentioned people may learn about how to integrate coaching into their work.

Mm-hmm. And

that is exactly what I wanna talk about today. Okay. How leaders can incorporate coaching skills into the workplace, and specifically how they can understand. When to coach versus when to employ the typical tactics of leadership that we understand to be more directive, prescriptive, et cetera.

Julie Harris Oliver: So how do you differentiate between the two? Let's start there.

Abbie Young: I differentiate between the two in terms of who is asking versus answering the question. [00:04:00] So a leader in the space of. I don't like to say managing people. I think we manage things and lead people, but in traditional leadership ways, they would be having questions asked to them and answering those questions, so being more directive and prescriptive.

In the way that they're communicating with their staff versus with coaching, they are in the place of really asking questions that are helping their staff develop deeper understandings and helping guide them toward their own answers on a path of like empowerment and development.

Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. That word development came to mind as you were saying that, like that's really how you develop your people, right?

Abbie Young: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Julie Harris Oliver: Let's talk about what are some instances where you would use one versus the other? We were talking earlier, and I remember the, the example of operating room came up. [00:05:00] That is maybe not the time Yes. To coach. Yes, yes. How do you differentiate when to employ, which?

Abbie Young: Yeah I've been asked this question and give the cop out answer, which is, it depends, right?

But I, I truly think it does depend first on the circumstance, or you use the example of the operating room, and there might be space for that, right? In a, in a teaching hospital, you might have somebody in a less urgent situation be able to pose. A question of, okay, what is the next step you would take?

Certainly in an emergency, that's likely not what you would expect, right? So there's an element of circumstance, and I would also say urgency. And perhaps there's an element of Im importance too, right? If, if something is happening that is truly critical to an outcome, it might not be the space for a coaching question, but perhaps.

In the immediate situation, the immediate context and conversation, there is a little bit of space for somebody to explore [00:06:00] and be able to answer their own questions too. I also think about it, , in terms of context. And what I mean by that is, is this something that's happening? Over email, or is this something that's happening over text or face-to-face?

Mm-hmm. Right. Is this something that if you pose this question to somebody, pose a question such as, how would you handle this to somebody? Are they going to go off and. Just do it the way that they would like to handle it. And is that okay with you? Or is this a space where perhaps that's not what you'd like them to do?

So you have to create a little bit of a buffer, right? I want you to answer this question, but I'm still going to say, go forth or. Let's revisit this. So I think all of those all the context work, kind of urgency situation, communication method are all factors of consideration for when one is employed versus the other.[00:07:00]

Julie Harris Oliver: And I'm thinking as I'm listening to you, the, there's probably a lot of work that has to happen. I don't know if it's a lot of work, but some work has to happen. If you were to start doing this, like you said, you can't just ask a question and let them run off and do the thing, right? Sure. True. So what kind of, what kind of pre-work do you have to do to create the kind of culture where when you start coaching, someone's gonna know that's what you're doing?

That's and not, oh, my leader has no idea they're asking me all the questions.

Abbie Young: That's such a's such a great question because I always think about what would happen if someone is very well intentioned. But has never used a coaching strategy before. And what would the reactions of their staff be? Probably like bewilderment, they'd like, it'd probably be shocked and like, don't you know exactly. Like what and, and what an odd, you know, someone who's normally telling me things, all of a sudden I'm being put on the spot. Right. I think it just creates all sorts of types of confusion. So I, I. think [00:08:00] the landscape is broad here, right?

There's a lot of pre-work that has to be done. I'm always a fan of transparency, first of all, right? It's probably a good thing to say, Hey, staff, I'm going to try something new and explain how and why and when, et cetera. I also talk about. Preconditions for having a coaching environment and what needs to happen in the workplace, what culture needs to exist in order for people to really thrive in this space?

One of the features of this I talk about is a growth mindset. People have to believe that they have impact over themselves and their own development in order to really benefit. From a coaching relationship, right? Even with a leader, supervisor, et cetera, you, you said yourself a few minutes ago, a lot of this is how we develop people, right?

We kind of hand them back the baton [00:09:00] and say, okay, like your turn, you teach me, you tell me. If someone doesn't believe in themselves that they have the capacity to grow and develop. It's likely a self-fulfilling prophecy there, right? So the, the belief and the understanding, both internally and in the workspace we are here to develop, we will not get this right every single time.

This is a supportive environment where if I flip this onto you and you give an answer that isn't the quote unquote right one or maybe is something that somebody else would not say, then. We're here for the sake of your development, and then that's okay. Which leads me into the next precondition, which is psychological safety.

Yeah, and I have, I'm a big fan of this Amy Edmondson's work, and this is something that growth, both growth mindset. Carol Dweck's concept and, and psychological safety, which is Amy Edmondson. So something that I studied closely in graduate school as they [00:10:00] relate to high performing teams and performance in the workplace.

I like to give a little plug for psychological safety when I talk about it and say it's not, it's not permissive, right? I, I group it in with people who talk about gentle parenting, right? And don't believe in gentle parenting because it's like, kid, the monkeys are running the zoo, right?

It's not, it's not a permissive like, go ahead and do whatever you want. Environment it is. Truly that people believe that they are safe to fail, make mistakes, own up to their mistakes, and not have there be consequences to it. Right? It's not an environment of failure is accepted that is not the standard.

So I talk about those two things as being critical preconditions as part of a culture in which a leader will engage with coaching.

Julie Harris Oliver: Can you speak a bit to, and I know this is an entirely. Additional topic that we could dive into, but how to create [00:11:00] that psychological safety. 'cause I was add, I would add in there, show up as who you are also being safe to totally be who you are in the room.

Abbie Young: Totally. Um,

Julie Harris Oliver: What's the quick version of how you can start to cultivate that kind of culture?

Abbie Young: I model it. I and own it, right? So I, I think there are stages to this and there are so many resources online people can access. I mean, this is truly something that is practiced and studied and researched, but the summary of it seems to be modeled this behavior and be.

Very, very strict with maintaining that type of culture. Don't slack with it. Communicate upfront that it's happening and it might feel like a shift to people. They might perceive that as a shift. And when someone does make a mistake, manage your reaction to that as a leader, right? Perhaps thank them for taking a risk or be a little [00:12:00] bit softer with the way that you correct that type of behavior.

But modeling it to your staff and then being ferocious about having that culture be created and sustained. And when I say be ferocious about sustaining it, I also mean calling out behaviors that are not supportive of that type of environment too.

Julie Harris Oliver: Mm-hmm. And what might that look like?

Abbie Young: Say that we're in a group meeting and you are on my staff, and you were going around and sharing ideas, and you say something that you show up as you are authentically as you are and say something that somebody else finds silly and they snicker or sneer in response to that. Make a face or something.

If I observe that as a leader, I might say, now I'm afraid to choose a name without calling somebody out. But I might say to that person, [00:13:00] Julie took a risk there. And in this culture we're trying to create, we are trying to make sure people feel safe and comfortable taking risks. I wanna acknowledge that the reaction you just had is not supportive of the culture we're trying to create here.

Please pay attention to that in the future. In my response, what I don't want to do is shame them. Right, right. Because that's also not supportive of a psychologically safe culture, but calling it out in a way that's respectful. I would, I used to say to my staff all the time, firm, but loving

Julie Harris Oliver: like Mary Poppins.

Like Mary Poppins, but kind

Abbie Young: firm, but kind, exactly. Firm, but kind.

Julie Harris Oliver: What are some examples of, or an example? I'm just thinking real, I think in real, like linear, practical, how would I do that terms?

Abbie Young: Sure.

Julie Harris Oliver: So if there was a situation where you really could go either way, I could, I could be directive or I [00:14:00] could take an extra few minutes and develop my people over something.

Do you have an example of what that might actually look like?

Abbie Young: And you've already made the determination of, I want to employ some coaching skills in this moment.

Julie Harris Oliver: Yes.

Abbie Young: Okay. So you might ask, what's your idea to handle this situation? Let's be more specific about an example, just to put some color into it.

Right. We're working on a. Collaborative project with a partner who's internal to our company, but maybe hasn't been the easiest, most

Collegial person, you know, or, or office in the past. And we're gonna take five minutes to have this conversation, I might say, how would you handle this?

Listen to what they have to say. Some questions I love are what's holding you [00:15:00] back from taking that approach the, and addressing some of the barriers and the obstacles, and then when we're elucidating those, that sounds reasonable. Tell me what you think you'll do when you face those, inevitably understand what the plan is, right?

And. Plan. Plan for the obstacles existing and how you would handle those and then go out and try it. Right. One of the things I love about coaching is how iterative it is and how helping someone develop that, the awareness that they would develop and a question as simple as what's holding you back from taking that approach your defined ideal approach.

And then going off and trying it and then coming back with a new awareness and understanding that was built when they go off and try it, and then having another conversation about that.

Julie Harris Oliver: I wonder if you would put [00:16:00] guardrails around that. Like if you, through the conversation, understand that they're going down a path that they've really thought through and think is a good idea, but you know, from experience.

Terrible idea and it's gonna blow up in their face. How can you then, or would you adjust or put guardrails up to kind of help them?

Abbie Young: I didn't think it's circumstantial. I never would want anybody to set somebody up for failure knowingly. Right. And I think this is where the, the flip into. Let's come out of coaching and into traditional everyday leadership management where this exists, right?

If I don't wanna send somebody who's on my team into a lion den, if I know they're taking an approach that is absolutely going to cause that person to have some type of abrasive reaction, I'd offer some guidance there, of course, because [00:17:00] ultimately. You want them to go back and try again. Right. You don't want the, to set them up for something that's ultimately going to have them spooked.

Right? Certainly. So, yes, I absolutely would. And again, I think it, it depends on the circumstances.

Julie Harris Oliver: So there's something in this, I'm not even sure what my question is right now, but there's a blend of. For lack of a better word, directing and coaching. Have you seen good examples of this out in the world?

Abbie Young: Boy, what a question. I wanna say yes, but couldn't point to someone specific, and let me tell you why I think that. I don't know that if before I became a coach I would have been able to identify this in [00:18:00] another person, and certainly since I have been coaching. It's easier, right? It's easier to hear coaching questions in the wild. Right.

I recognize that. Exactly. Exactly. And I think there.

It's context related to I'm, I'm hesitating, right? Because here I am based outside New York City and there is such an urgency to life and work around here. Mm-hmm. Everything that it seems often that we sacrifice the development for the urgency. And getting things done more quickly. So that's why I hesitate.

And I, you know, I'm not trying to throw anyone, or everyone in this case, under the bus, but I, it is, I think it is challenging to execute this in a way that is graceful [00:19:00] and frankly, without a lot of, um, understanding of what coaching is. I've, when I've spoken to folks about this in the past, I have offered the reminder.

Of this will feel clunky to you, like you're not used to the, I mean, you and I, I am sure both, both of us went through this process as well with our own coaching. Sometimes it can feel clunky to be in a coach's seat and only ask question after question after question, right? And if you are not used to that,

it's hard to uptake that. It's also hard to build the habit. Okay, I'm gonna stay in this place and not run to their rescue and not run to the response for it. Interestingly, what's coming to mind in direct response to your question is I've seen people be really good at this in parenting using [00:20:00] coaching questions with their kids.

isn't that the same? We're trying to develop our kids as we raise them too. Right? And the kind of put it, putting it back on them. I'm not gonna rescue this from, this rescue you from this challenge that you're facing. I'm gonna ask you some questions to help you develop your own voice and your own understanding of how you'd like to handle this.

And then maybe I flip into the guiding parenting. Again, I'm not sending you into the lion's stand here, but it's, it's a helpful method to teach young people how to become young adults.

Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, I wish I had been that conscious in my parenting. Oh man. As I look back now, I'm like, I wish I had these. Doesn't

Abbie Young: everybody, doesn't everybody, but I, I think it's so, it is incredible to watch.

I'm thinking about I silly things, right? We identify it [00:21:00] in the wild. Actually, a, a mother I watched of two youngsters in an airport. And managing the chaos of the airport and a lay layover. And it seemed like there was a grandparent was there and they had just left Universal. And so everybody had toys and stuffed animals, and it's just chaos, chaos, chaos in the airport.

And she took the time and kind of a tricky moment to. Get down, literally physically get down on our kids' levels. And I overheard some of the things she was asking them, right? Kids were probably like six and four or five and seven, and. Teaching them through a way of helping them understand and helping them answer their own questions and develop an awareness and understanding of the world around them, and that it delighted me to see that.

Incredible,

incredible,

incredible. And just recognizing too, this, we were talking about preconditions earlier, being [00:22:00] able to regulate yourself as a leader, as a parent. Whatever. Whenever you're going to ask coaching questions or sit in the coaching seat is so critical. Taking yourself out of that situation and managing your own emotional reactions to whatever is happening in front of two or around you is really critical to be able to stay in that place and, and keep the attention, the focus on the other person.

Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. You have

Abbie Young: to EAs easier said than done.

Julie Harris Oliver: I know. I'm like, wow.

Abbie Young: Yeah.

Julie Harris Oliver: And I'm wondering if this, I'm gonna ask about does this work better in person? Can you do it remotely? Is this an argument for return to office? Which I always hate to be on the side of the return to office argument, but

Abbie Young: yeah,

Julie Harris Oliver: that's a question.

How does this play out in person versus remote?

Abbie Young: Yeah, I'm not so sure. I mean, I'm sure there are [00:23:00] differences, but what would they, what comes to mind for you when you ask that question?

Julie Harris Oliver: I just think sometimes when, like in my own experience, when I've, when I've had. Bosses who were able to coach or able to really developed me right as we were going there was so much value to following them around and being there in the moment to ask questions.

To have questions that, do you see what just happened here? How would you react to that? Just to have that moment to moment interaction that's more spontaneous than we have a meeting from 10 to 10 20 and we're gonna go over these things in the agenda. Sure. That there's so much value to that in-person interaction that's unplanned.

Abbie Young: Sure. Then in that case, yes. And, and that, again, talk about a tangent and different topic of conversation. I do wonder how much is that happening in the workspace today? And again, I am, I am biased because the culture of the New York City metro area is chaos, [00:24:00] right? Yeah. I mean, it just, it's fast paced and, and chaotic.

So, um, certainly. Take it back to the operating room example. You're gonna get a whole lot out of being in person as a surgeon than you would be on the phone over the computer. It's not talking

Julie Harris Oliver: about it afterwards.

Abbie Young: Exactly. Yeah. Not just debriefing, but is it impossible to do? Virtually. No, absolutely not.

Of course not and and I'm sure with project based work, for example, when you have some lead time and some heads down time and other things, picking up a phone, having a conversation, chatting over whatever video app, et cetera, there's value in that too. It's probably easier to employ coaching in person because of the moment to moment access.

It's, it's easier for somebody just to stop by my office and have a quick conversation, address, something going on in the moment. Then [00:25:00] she's not here. I have to call her. I gotta get on her calendar. Then we lose the thread, et cetera, et cetera. Sure

Julie Harris Oliver: about. Now I'm gonna argue the other side. We do most all of our coaching online.

So

Abbie Young: we do, it can be done. We, it, it certainly can be done. And, and also we're in those sessions to be coaching.

Right. So that's the other piece of it too. I, I would say also there's an element of we might be working on a project and you could. Ask some questions of me, right? Use your own co coaching questions of me, and then to tie back into what we were talking about earlier.

Say to me have a thought. Think about that and come up with your response to it. Don't do anything until we chat again. Come back to me and let's have a conversation. So there is a little bit of built in. Guidance and guardrails around [00:26:00] action. Right? Following that as, and I would imagine that conversations online, there probably are fewer guardrails, right?

Mm-hmm. Being in person is a little bit easier to say, please don't run off and do this right away. So being clear in your instructions I would imagine would be helpful for folks too.

Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. One last question for you. Why now? What makes this important? What makes this urgent?

Abbie Young: That's a great question. I, navigating the return to the workplace, understanding people have fewer in-person training opportunities, shadowing opportunities, or navigating a hybrid environment.

Truly. And second Forbes released a study in 2020, I wanna say, that was talking about [00:27:00] workplace dynamics, and very simply said something like, young people want coaches as managers. They don't want prescriptive, they want to learn, they want to develop, they don't want to just be told what to do. And so in the, you know, appreciating that.

Young people are growing up and entering the workforce and becoming leaders in the workforce, we should pay attention to how we're training them and their preparedness. Thirdly, I would say, oh boy, is the world changing? I mean, how different are things than they were two years ago? Just with AI coming on the scene as quickly as it has, and ensuring that we are equipping people appropriately, not only kind of with the hard skills, tactical approaches and strategies, et cetera, but also with their own ability to navigate complex situations.

In a world that is increasingly complex, [00:28:00] we probably wanna pay attention to that right now.

Julie Harris Oliver: Yes.

Abbie Young: How have you seen this show up in your career, if at all?

Julie Harris Oliver: Oh, well, I have seen both. I've had for sure a real direction and control. Bosses. I had one who used to correct the words as they were coming out of my mouth

Abbie Young: Oh, wow.

In

Julie Harris Oliver: meetings. That was wild. And I've had real, , teachers and coaches who really spent time to help me develop and really deeply understand what I was doing. , And to know the why and how everything fit together and, and all of those things. Yeah. And I've never had any boss that was purely one thing or the other.

Or one who did both aspects really well. Usually if someone did something really well, the other part of working them with for them was a nightmare. Interesting.

Abbie Young: So

Julie Harris Oliver: it's a, and I don't know if there's a lot of consciousness and intention behind those styles. I think what you're talking about [00:29:00] is really having a lot of intention about how you.

Lead people.

Abbie Young: Absolutely. Which

Julie Harris Oliver: I think is the switch collectively.

Abbie Young: Absolutely. We need to

Julie Harris Oliver: make,

Abbie Young: yeah. Intention and I would also say consciousness. Mm-hmm. There's an awareness piece of, maybe I flipped into something that I'm doing unintentionally, but I then need to be aware of, is this one, is this another?

What is required in this moment right now and being able to be in that space of like true mindfulness. It was funny, as you're talking, I was thinking, yeah, I wonder if, if people default to one versus the other because being in a coaching space and almost sometimes it's not necessarily sitting on a fence, but certainly you are taking yourself out of.

The dynamic, right? Putting the onus on somebody else, that doesn't always align with the skillset of being direct or directive [00:30:00] or prescriptive. Mm-hmm. So I think the intentionality of honing both skills also really matters and understanding do I default to one versus the other? What is required of me in this moment?

What would benefit my staff most in this moment? And also, am I a person who can receive that feedback from them? There, there's, requires openness and willingness as well.

Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. And it, it feels to me like a first step might be if you were thinking of being more conscious and intentional about doing this is, is just spending some time noticing.

What am I doing and what am I leaning into and how am I approaching this? Yeah.

Abbie Young: Get a coach.

Julie Harris Oliver: Ha.

Abbie Young: Yeah. There, it's there. It's build some awareness. Get a coach. Yeah. Yeah. And then

Julie Harris Oliver: also that piece you said earlier about being able to regulate yourself, [00:31:00] especially as. Urgency ramps up and speed ramps up and emotions ramp up.

And then all you can do is tell people what to do. Right. You know, there's, you really have to be present in your body, calm in your spirit, in order to be able to. Pause.

Abbie Young: Yeah, I had a beautiful question at a conference around this topic once and one of the session attendees, I was speaking on this topic.

She asked me, well, what happens if, if when I use coaching questions, they don't get to the answer I want them to get to? And then I flipped it back to her and said, why do you want them to get to that answer? And that is in a space of, if I were the leader in that moment, I'd have to recognize that impulse in myself, be able to ask myself that question, what is fueling this [00:32:00] desire in me for them to get to this specific answer?

Is it something about the specific answer? Is it something about the urgency? Is it something about something else? Is it my own ego? And then. Be able to answer those questions honestly and likely take myself out of it, not make it about me. Then of course, we flip into the examples of, well, if it is actually critical, if it is actually urgent, perhaps there's space for that.

But yeah, the self-reflection in the moment is hard.

Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. Well 'cause the dark side of that is. Manipulating someone through asking 'em a bunch of questions to get them exactly where you want them to go.

Abbie Young: Right.

Julie Harris Oliver: Ew, ew, ew. No one wants to be on either side of that.

Abbie Young: No. No, you do not. No, you don't. And I mean, how gross does that feel as an employee, right, of just is this my thought?

Were these my ideas? I don't even, did I get it right? [00:33:00] Oh God, did I get it right? Right, which comes back into. The fear, like the fear, did I get it right? That comes right back into the psychological safety piece, right? Mm-hmm. It you can't be answering questions out of a place of fear. I have to get it right or else.

And how much? I mean, let's talk about how much psychological safety fosters creative thinking and how critical psychological safety is to come up with answers that perhaps we haven't seen before. So it's just, I love, I, I have love living in the gray space and the nuance of this, because that's our world, right?

We live in, we live in this space of, well, when do I do one and when do I do the other? Because realistically, it's not all the, we don't do one all the time, even in our coaching practice. I, I posed this question to my mentor coach during my certification. I asked her. Well, when do, when do you ever not coach?

Is there a time where you [00:34:00] realized like, the coaching question is not productive right now? And her response to me was, when I am fairly confident, almost certain that I have exhausted a client's self-awareness, they have truly reached the limits of their ability to answer this question for my themselves.

Then I will step in with. Some suggestions, right? Because it might be a knowledge limitation, it could be an aware, you know, we can only be so self-aware. So just being able to have the understanding of when have I reached the end of this, right? And are we going around and around in a circle? That's not helpful.

The ability to. Recognize that and then step in, offer a suggestion, offer some guidance, a perspective, et cetera, can be really helpful for people. And that's another awareness based skill

Julie Harris Oliver: [00:35:00] for sure. I'm thinking especially the demographic in your bio that you're working with, I find people earlier in their career, sometimes they're circling around a thing just 'cause they don't know.

Abbie Young: That's right. And I talk about this. And I've asked this question, right, how, how is working with different age groups different? Because I truly believe it is different. I truly believe that when you're sitting in a coaching space with a 22-year-old who is three months out of college, they're stepping foot in the workplace for the first time.

Their ability to answer questions about themselves and their. Beliefs and their habits and their perspectives is not the same as someone who is 62 and has had a 40 year long career. So we I wrestle with this all the time. Right? When do I offer guidance and suggestions? And when do I [00:36:00] stay in the coaching space?

Because it is critical, right? We're we're here for their development. So it's critical that they do develop and build that skill. But I do believe that it is inherently different for younger people. All, all sorts of different demographics, right? Age is not the only spectrum that exists here. But it certainly is.

It certainly is a factor.

Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, for sure.

Abbie Young: Yeah.

Julie Harris Oliver: Where can people find you?

Abbie Young: So many places. You can find me on LinkedIn. My full name is Abigayle Young on LinkedIn, spelled A-B-I-G-A-Y-L-E. Can also contact me through my website, which is agylcc.com.

There's more about me, contact form, et cetera, et cetera.

Julie Harris Oliver: Thank you so much for doing this. This was delicious. Thank you, Julie.

Abbie Young: It was [00:37:00] awesome. Thank you for having me.

Speaker: Thank you, Abbie Young. This was delicious. If any of this resonates with you, please subscribe and leave a review at all the podcast places. If you'd like to work with me, you can find me at julieharrisoliver.com and let me leave you with this. If you're in a position of leadership, why don't you spend the next couple of weeks noticing?

When are you being directive, when are you coaching? When might you have the opportunity to switch? And just notice. And then get in touch and let me know how that goes. This is deep work out loud. I'm Julie Harris Oliver, thanks for listening. See you next time.