EP 1 If It’s hysterical it’s historical with dr. Mike shea
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Julie Harris Oliver: Welcome to Deep Work Out Loud, the thinking that fuels our life, our work, and our leadership. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. This is the podcast where I sit with another professional coach and we do some work around a single concept, a piece of inspiration, a
topic we've seen come up in our coaching, something we're reading, something we're thinking about, and if we're really lucky while we're talking about it, we might demonstrate what coaching might look and feel like, but we'll see how this goes.
It is still all an experiment. With any luck, you'll leave with something you can apply and use in your work or your life, or both. Today I'm here with Dr. Mike Shea. Mike is an executive coach who graduated from the Hudson Institute in Santa Barbara. He specializes in transition and transformation work with clients.
He has 20 years of experience as a pulmonary and critical care physician, as well as 10 years working in physician and hospital leadership. Originally from the Boston area. He currently resides in Hawaii. Hi [00:01:00] Mike.
Mike Shea: Aloha. Julie, how are you?
Julie Harris Oliver: Aloha. Now, before we dig in, why don't we talk about what was your journey to becoming a coach?
Mike Shea: I started with mentorship, throughout my career in Medicine. I had the opportunity to teach med students and residents. And, , there's something really exciting about taking what you've learned, passing it on to other people and watching the lights come on as they figure things out, ,
Julie Harris Oliver: Hmm.
Mike Shea: them on their journey. , I then went into leadership, hospital leadership about 10 years ago, , culminating in a five year, , stint as Chief Medical Officer, , in the health system that I work in. And doing some leadership development courses and being on the receiving end of that, again, got me really excited about being able to pass that on to other people and, , working with an executive coach with our executive team. The coach actually said, you'd be really good at this. You should give it a try. [00:02:00] And so, uh, I decided that, , it would be a great late career transition to shift over to, to work as a coach as opposed to night call into my sixties. So attended the Hudson Institute and, , it's been a great fit.
And so, I do coach folks in healthcare, but I, I like to coach beyond healthcare as well because. find the things that we face really do cross from one industry to the other. Uh, 'cause we're all human beings and we tend to face the same challenges.
Julie Harris Oliver: It really does, isn't it?
Mike Shea: Absolutely.
Julie Harris Oliver: Now, what did you bring for us to dig into today?
Mike Shea: It is a topic that's been, uh, front and center for me, uh, over the last couple of years. How relationships with our parents really manifest in our day-to-day work life. Uh, and specifically around, uh, estrangement. Uh, I was estranged from my father for several years, I think it's a really rich and [00:03:00] deep topic that we can dig into and let's explore and see what we can find.
Julie Harris Oliver: Sounds fun. Okay. What brought this front of mind for you?
Mike Shea: So for the last, geez, it's been probably five years, , I've been a stranger from my dad.
I'll give you a little background. My home life growing up was pretty normal on the outside, you know, mom and dad, middle class home outside of Boston. , You know, we got to take vacations. We were financially comfortable. And my parents are both loving but they own, had their own demons. and I say this retrospectively, I certainly didn't understand it when I was a kid. Nobody's perfect. I've heard people say that, you know, when you're a parent. It's really trying to figure out which things you're gonna let your kids have to go to therapy for when they grow up. Like everybody comes out with something. But
Julie Harris Oliver: you know there's gonna be something.
Mike Shea: but my parents did the very best they could with what they were built. And you know, they had their own stuff. and [00:04:00] then, you know, there's the normal human development piece of, you become a teenager, you go to college, your parents know nothing, they're fools and, and you're out to, to take over the world and, and then. Uh, there was some natural separation from both parents, and then as I got older and wiser and got some more life experience, I realized that they, in fact, were kind and loving people that I had something in common with. And, you know, we kind of came back together. It was only later in life where it seemed like, I think it was just the work that I had done on myself.
I started to understand. That I really didn't wanna tolerate people treating me in negative ways. You know, people being sarcastic and rude and demeaning. And, and I decided not to accept that in in my life. And it became obvious, the only person still [00:05:00] behaving that way towards me was my father. I tried to have some conversation with him about it, and he really didn't seem to comprehend where I was coming from. And then with help of therapists, you know, wrote a letter, refined it, so none of it was pointing fingers or blaming, but really just saying like, Hey, this is the way I like to be treated. I hear you say this, it doesn't feel very good. like to continue having a relationship with you, but. I really like to ask you to change how, you know, how you treat me. And he just, he couldn't hear it, whether he couldn't comprehend it or he just couldn't hear it. We were never able to get past that.
And so we didn't talk really for five years. Over last summer, uh, he became ill, uh, and ultimately passed away. And so of the grief around that Digging into the, the grieving process and really looking [00:06:00] back and, and seeing how now that that relationship is, is gone, how much that relationship influenced my relationship with others, particularly male authority figures at work. I thought that would be a, a good place to talk today.
Julie Harris Oliver: Well, where do we even begin to unpack? I will say the caveat that I'm not a therapist and we're not gonna look at this from a therapeutic lens. We're gonna try to look at this from a coaching perspective, which is really. More than looking to the past, looking to the future and how that might affect future behavior and how that has, as you said, affected your relationships at work and your working relationships.
So where would you like to kind of start to unpack it?
Mike Shea: . Let's talk about how. My relationship with my dad affected my relationships with male bosses at work, uh, because I think that really is a, a strong coaching perspective.
Julie Harris Oliver: Sure.
Mike Shea: and from [00:07:00] Hudson, we believe that self as coach is a really important thing and that. My coaching skills are rooted in the fact that I do the work myself, and that I, I have come to understandings that I can then help others come to their own understanding in the same kind of ways. so I found myself with, I've had seven, you know, male authority figures in the last 10 years in my various leadership positions, I always found those relationships tense. Exception of maybe one. And in looking back was because I was looking for them to validate me.
Julie Harris Oliver: Hmm.
Mike Shea: So I grew up trying to get the validation through achievement, which certainly helped me get through med school. But as an executive, I would do my job and I wasn't satisfied until I got. Positive feedback saying that I had done a good job. And even when I got that, it seemed [00:08:00] that it would only last. The effect would only last for a short period of time. And when I looked back at the, the track record, the work was always done.
The work was always there. And yet internally I was still feeling not validated, not. Appreciate and not seen, which was really the lens through which I grew up. It was only when I started to appreciate that, that I was able to be present in the moment and recognize when those feelings started to come up. And that's where somatics would come into play. Like I might feel a little anxious, a little tense in my shoulders. I might feel a little fluttering in, you know, my gut. That people might call, you know, call anxiety and I'd be looking across the desk to the boss to be like to, to tell me like, you're good, you're okay. And number one, it was unsettling for me, but number two, it was unsettling for them because they're just trying to. Tell their, you know, [00:09:00] direct report what to do and get you ready, you know, get the project done and get onto the next crisis or the next project that
Julie Harris Oliver: Right,
Mike Shea: done. And there was just a whole lot of extra emotional baggage that I was bringing.
Julie Harris Oliver: like I said, you did a good job. What,
Mike Shea: right.
Julie Harris Oliver: why are you still here?
Mike Shea: told you last week you did a good job on this. Like, why, why are we still talking about this? I
Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: So what, what kind of work did you do to start to notice, oh, this need for feedback is different from what one typically. Would need from feedback at work.
Mike Shea: The foundational work for me was in therapy. So again, I think as a coach, I often recommend that my clients. Have either a therapy background or are are actively engaged in therapy because I think coaching we really do sometimes as we're digging around, we unearth things that are beyond our scope.
Julie Harris Oliver: Mm-hmm.
Mike Shea: Uh, and it's nice to have clients, uh, be willing and open to that deeper exploration where you can really understand where those things are coming from. But from our [00:10:00] perspective, as coaches, we want to be able to help our clients recognize in the moment. Something seems out of proportion. Why am I sitting in this office talking about a routine project, feeling highly anxious, feeling like my wellbeing is hinging on whether or not the person across from me and says, great job.
Or, you know, maybe doesn't smile and says, Hmm, could have been better, or, eh, we're gonna have to, you know, go back to the drawing board. Why is my and wellbeing wrapped up in. A work interaction like that.
Julie Harris Oliver: And what's been triggered in you that perhaps has nothing to do with what just happened in this room.
Mike Shea: Exactly.
Julie Harris Oliver: I had an incident like this at at work once where it's embarrassing to talk about 'cause it was not my best moment. I got so angry in a meeting that I kinda lost my shit. Unfortunately. The CEO.
Every top executive was [00:11:00] in that room and I walked outta there and went straight to therapy and was like, what is wrong with me? I need to be able to keep it together in these meetings. And she used that phrase, if it's hysterical, it's historical.
Mike Shea: It was on my mind. I was gonna say that.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, here we are.
Mike Shea: exactly.
Julie Harris Oliver: So that can be a good indicator that that's actually a topic for therapy.
Mike Shea: And I think teaching clients about somatics, really understanding are the sensations happening in our bodies and how are we interpreting them?
Julie Harris Oliver: Mm-hmm.
Mike Shea: Because I don't know, I grew, I was a child of the seventies and eighties. They didn't do a whole lot of teaching about like your feelings and your emotions.
I think younger generations are getting much better education about like what's going on or what am I feeling and how do I respond to it? did not learn emotional self-management.
Julie Harris Oliver: I mean, we had free to be you and me.
Mike Shea: We did, and I had the record. I used to love that
Julie Harris Oliver: It's all right to cry.
Mike Shea: We were allowed to express our emotions, but I, I think I've heard it expressed [00:12:00] as a color palette.
I had like the primary colors and maybe like some of the secondary ones, but I did not have the and, you know, 28 pack of the Crayola crayons version of the emotional palette. You know, mine was
Julie Harris Oliver: Oh.
Mike Shea: the, the 12 pack.
Julie Harris Oliver: Hardly anybody does. I was listening to Brene Brown Talk. No, I was listening to her new book, strong Ground, and she was talking about when, as part of her research asked, you know, thousands of people to name emotions and most people could name three. Happy, sad, mad.
Mike Shea: is startling.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah.
Mike Shea: There's so many more, there's so many shades in between and different, you know, and they create different sensations in our bodies. if we don't know what they are, we may treat them as hunger or may try to just suppress them. And that's one thing I've learned in therapy is the more I suppress the expression of emotion, the more it comes out sideways. Kinda like what you described in the, you know, the meeting with all of the executives. That emotion just pops off and you're like, what just [00:13:00] happened? So having some self-awareness to be able to feel what's happening and question like, where's that coming from? Now, mind you, I'm not sitting in the CEO office doing that for the first time.
Like that's something I learned in coaching to be able to sit and say, okay, as you think about that meeting you had with your CEO today, what did you feel? Where was it? What did it feel like? You know, and, and. What does it remind you of? And sort of digging around to see what things in my history with it, and, and it was through that, then we could go to how do, how do I manage that?
'cause really at work, it's about self-management. The emotions are gonna come. But if I can recognize that that emotion is related to something historical, as you pointed out. Then I can say, okay, say to myself, this is not something I have to manage right now. Like this. can put that aside and let's just move forward. What I need from this meeting with my CEO for [00:14:00] the next 10 minutes is a decision on are we going with plan A or plan B and detach from that emotional piece and then take the time later to be able to, to sort through it. Called compartmentalization. You know, can I self-manage well enough to show up at work as my best self without having to drag all of my emotional baggage into the room?
Julie Harris Oliver: It really is a practice and I think historically, you know, when the overriding management style is direction and control, and I don't know how I'm gonna quote Brene Brown again. And the only way to maintain that kind of direction and control is to use occasional cruelty. And the managers who utilize that sort of management style are often wildly unregulated with their emotions, and so just pop off and lose it all the time on people, which keeps everybody on edge and guessing and not really knowing what to do, and [00:15:00] certainly not bringing their best work.
And so there's something about if you as a leader can regulate yourself, hold onto your emotions, be intentional about how you show up. It actually creates some safety and security for the people around you to be able to show up and do their best work. I.
Mike Shea: There's some great work out there and I'm terrible at the appropriate resource, so I will apologize to the audience, but so much work out there on. What we say is really only maybe 10% of what gets conveyed,
Julie Harris Oliver: Mm-hmm.
Mike Shea: language, our tone. There's so much more nonverbal communication that's happening, and we as leaders can really set the tone in a room.
We often set the tone in a room before we've even opened our mouths as soon as we walk in the door and sit down at a table. And that's another piece that's really important for coaching, is creating some self-awareness. our clients about how [00:16:00] do you present, how do you present to your, peers? How do you present to your direct reports?
How do they present to clients, potential clients? Because so much of it is body language, so much of it is. Our mannerisms, tone of voice there. There's so many layers of communication that are happening that we can control. But that oftentimes we're not aware of. And that could be tripping us up.
Julie Harris Oliver: Mm-hmm. How do you wanna show up?
Mike Shea: Exactly. And it actually, because of the mirror neurons that we have,
In our brains that are really helpful. Human development when we're babies. It's why mom smiles, baby smiles. We have this desire to actually meet and mirror what we see in other human beings. And so when you come in, calm. And you take a big deep breath and you relax. If you watch other people in the [00:17:00] room will actually take a deep breath and relax. there's actually neurons in the brain that encourage that kind of behavior. , Feel free to read up on that. It's very interesting. There's a lot of work, uh, VanDerKolk, , the, the Author of the Body Keeps Score, has some really, really amazing, , literature . So as we're talking about self-regulation and managing our emotions, it comes to my mind an experience I had recently which I'd like to tell you my father and I were estranged, I didn't know that he'd been getting sicker. Uh, he was in his eighties, uh, he was developing early signs of Parkinsonism uh, had, uh, lymphoma, which he was getting treatment for
Julie Harris Oliver: Hmm.
Mike Shea: He'd been hospitalized, uh, after a fall at home and was declining and a member of my family reached out because they felt they should know that he was in the hospital. And they had sent me a text on a Thursday. We had talked on Friday, and it sounded like dad [00:18:00] might rally. He might. He had some, you know, he was sick, but, we knew he was a stubborn son of a gun, so we thought, well, let's just see how things go through the weekend.
And so on Friday we said like, just, we'll touch base Monday, but I asked, send me a text if, if things change. And Saturday morning I got a text that they were planning to put him on Comfort Care. So I then suddenly, you know, living in Hawaii and having to try to get to Boston. That's.
Julie Harris Oliver: It's far.
Mike Shea: small feat.
So I, I, I jumped in the car and, , got home and threw a bunch of things in a suitcase and booked a flight that was 90 minutes, uh, away, like, so from, from where, being in my house, I had 90 minutes to get on the plane before it took off. And,
Julie Harris Oliver: Hmm.
Mike Shea: uh. My, my wife drove me to, to the airport and I couldn't check in because it was too close to the flight time and I had to go to the counter. And, you know, I get to the, the woman and she says, you're too close to the flight. I'm not supposed to check you [00:19:00] in. And previous versions of me would've started crying or yelling. It would've been anger or sadness,
Julie Harris Oliver: Yep.
Mike Shea: or, you know, perpetrator. Like those were.
Julie Harris Oliver: And understandably so.
Mike Shea: like legit. You see that every day and most people will be like, yeah, like your dad's dying.
Of course you're really upset. But I had a moment of grace, like something inside of me just said, you know what, just tell them what's going on. I have no control in this moment. I can't make her check me in. I can't make them hold the plane. I just gotta throw myself on the mercy of strangers. And so I said, this is what's going on. I just found out two hours ago that my dad's dying and I'd really like to try to get there before he dies. understand I may not make it. I won't hold you responsible, but all I need is a chance and I'm just asking you to give me that chance. And she looked at me, she looked around to see if anyone was watching, and she checked me in and she printed my boarding pass [00:20:00] and she said, you have 11 minutes to get to the gate. I wish you the best.
Julie Harris Oliver: Oh man.
Mike Shea: Yeah, it was, you know, and so, okay, check that box. Now I gotta go through TSA and I've got clear and I've got pre-check. So that, you know, that really helps. And, they rushed me up to the. x-ray machine, detector section, and of course time would have it. The the TSA agents are swapping who's running the scanner.
And so we have to wait. And so while I'm waiting, I look at the people who are in line and I'm like, I don't know, sixth in line. I said, Hey folks, I'm just gonna. Ask a favor, you know, I've gotta catch a flight. I've got nine minutes to get to the gate. this is the situation. Would you, would any of you be willing to let me go ahead of you? And all of them were so kind, they're like, oh my gosh, absolutely. Yes. How can we help you? And I was like, you know what, I'll take prayers because I don't know what other force is gonna be able to make this happen. Like this is, this is [00:21:00] gonna be tight and. Then I get up to the front and the TSA agent's like, we're not ready yet.
We're flipping the scanner. And, you know, and I said, well, I've got, I've got now eight minutes to get to my flight. And he is like, well, they shouldn't have checked you in this close. You should have gotten here earlier. And again, this would've been a perfect opportunity for me to tell 'em, fuck you, you're a jerk. I didn't, I looked at him and I said, my dad's dying. And I found out two hours ago, and I'm doing the very best I can. So if. You can anyway expedite me getting through. I'd appreciate it, but if you can't, I get it. I'm just asking for a chance. That was kind of my mantra. I just want a chance. And he smiled and he said, Godspeed, and he got me through. And so had to run through the airport. I am not in running shape. I have not been for many years, but I jogged through the airport with my suitcase and uh, I heard them calling my name overhead. You know, is the last and final call. Mike Shea,
am.
present yourself to [00:22:00] Gate 23. And I'm like, running. And I came around the corner and the woman looked at me and she said, Mr. Shea. And I said, 23 going to, you know, I was going to Vegas as the connector. And she said, yep. And she pulled, the door was closed. She pulled out her walkie-talkie and , I heard her talk to the, , the head flight attendant and said, have you guys closed the plane door?
And she said, no. She said, Mr. Shea has joined us. Please keep the door open. I'm gonna let him down.
And they let me in.
In. I get emotional telling this story. Mainly because there's a lot of hard things happening in the world these days and you know, for years now the world is a hard place sometimes, but are really good human beings out there. And I think it's always refreshing to me see the kindness of strangers when you make yourself a little bit vulnerable, people meet you there. . So the head flight attendant [00:23:00] met me on the gangway and said, catch your breath. You've made it.
Hmm.
And then she walked into my seat and I got to spend the next, you know, 12 hours figuring out what I was gonna say to my dad and. Again, there were little, little signposts, little moments where people were just kind along the way. The person at Vegas, you know, when I was checking in, just, you know, saw something in my face and just said, looks like you're having a rough day, and was just kind. So I made it. I got to Boston. At six 30 in the morning and was able to get to the hospital at seven o'clock.
And I, my, my hope and prayer was that I'd be in the room by myself with my dad, that he wouldn't be conscious enough to be able to have a conversation. I really just wanted to say what I
Julie Harris Oliver: Hmm.
Mike Shea: You know, as a career critical care doctor, I know that even though people aren't talking, in the room.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. Yeah.
Mike Shea: and, [00:24:00] it was perfect. They let me into the unit. The nurses were doing their handoffs, so they weren't in the room. I got to sit with him for 15 minutes. was, you know, mumbling to himself, but not coherent and not, not interactive. Didn't seem aware that I was there when I, when I talked to him.
So I was able to say like. Dad, I love you. I forgive you. I hope you can forgive me. You know, for any pain I caused and I wish you peace and I know your mom's waiting for you on the other side. And it felt, it felt really good to be able to say those things and just be with him and then let it go. think I only stayed for 15 minutes and then realize that like. That was what I needed. And so I, you know, kissed him goodbye on the forehead , , and left and got a text a couple hours later that he passed. And I think for me, the, the, the key piece of the story really is it's the self-regulation piece. Recognizing what I do have control over, which is [00:25:00] me and how I present to people, , and what I don't have control over, which is a whole lot of the external stuff. And I can get myself wound up and I can yell at people or victimize myself or try to, uh, find other ways to try to control what's going on outside of me. But most of that actually creates the very thing that I'm trying to avoid. Yelling at people in the airport is not gonna get me through faster
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah.
Mike Shea: and being kind and vulnerable did. And, you know, that was a valuable lesson for me. , It restored my faith in the human race. And, it's something I, I try to bring into my coaching again. What can you control?
Julie Harris Oliver: Thank you for sharing that story and, and it brings up so many pieces. You know, as you said, the self-regulating of it. So within, so without, if you, for whatever effect that you were able to have on the people around [00:26:00] you, you got there by being regulated in yourself, there's a piece about requests and being able to make a sincere, well-placed request.
That's clear. Everyone rose to meet you on that.
And also being able to have done the work to be able to meet your father in that moment, in the way that you wanted, that gave you peace.
Mike Shea: It was such a beautiful experience and it was so rich with so many lessons, as you reflected that back, what occurred to me was, you know, the beauty of giving people agency, like being able to make a request truly give the choice to the person sitting in front of you.
Julie Harris Oliver: And also what a gift. 'cause you know what? They got to do a miraculous thing that day. How lucky for them.
Mike Shea: and there was a beautiful postscript. I actually was in for another flight like three months later. Same woman at the counter, and I got to thank [00:27:00] her
Julie Harris Oliver: Oh, amazing.
Mike Shea: she cried and came out and gave me a hug.
Julie Harris Oliver: Oh,
Mike Shea: it was awesome. It was awesome because. Every little interaction like that has ripples, like, and I don't always get to see how the ripples spread out. Every once in a while I get a moment like that where I get to actually, you know, make the
Julie Harris Oliver: what a gift.
Mike Shea: and say like, you made a difference for me.
Like I will remember you forever because of that one 15 second kind act.
Julie Harris Oliver: And you know, she's getting yelled at all day long.
Mike Shea: Yeah. I mean, like you witness it all the time.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah.
Mike Shea: All the time. That is a thankless job. Having also worked as a bartender and, you know, service person in the past, like who's in public service, you know, facing the general public I always think of that
Julie Harris Oliver: It's important. Everyone has to have one of those jobs at least once in their life.
Mike Shea: so that you can recognize like, Hey, I know you're going through it most of the day.
I just want you to know, I see you.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah.
Mike Shea: and again, I think that highlights another important thing when I'm coaching leaders is [00:28:00] like, make sure your people are seen. That's a human need. People want to be seen, to be understood too, but be like, they just want to be seen and, and known that they're appreciated.
Julie Harris Oliver: And you don't know what people are going through.
Mike Shea: right?
Julie Harris Oliver: I'm curious, because you talked about, you know, the work you did in this journey,
Mike Shea: Yep.
Julie Harris Oliver: how did it change how you showed up with authority figures and feedback?
Mike Shea: It is really fascinating to me. I, I can't explain it. And when I am now in front of male authority figures, there's no longer that internal drive of, I hope you like me. I hope I'm okay. Tell me I'm, tell me I'm good enough, like it's evaporated. . It's easy to make up that it's because my dad has passed and now that you know that chapter is closed, maybe it's because that was a corrective experience going to see him. I don't know.
Julie Harris Oliver: Maybe it's that you know that you're enough
Mike Shea: right.
Julie Harris Oliver: you know that you're worthy.
Mike Shea: Regardless of the why, [00:29:00] I think it shows me the contrast of this is what an interaction, a professional interaction looks like when I don't have all my emotional baggage in the room.
Julie Harris Oliver: Mm-hmm.
Mike Shea: That doesn't mean that I won't ask for feedback. I want feedback because I want a
Julie Harris Oliver: Sure.
Mike Shea: like
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, it's a gift.
Mike Shea: if I'm looking for emotional validation, it's probably not appropriate in my job. there are healthier ways for me to achieve that. And I think as a leader and coaching leaders, you really want to make sure that they have healthy boundaries around how they treat their, their employees, their, their direct reports.
, And like you said, like some, some of the older school, directive leadership can be very abusive.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah,
Mike Shea: And it does not enhance performance. I
Julie Harris Oliver: no, it doesn't work.
Mike Shea: Yeah, creating urgency is one thing. But you know, the, the, one of the things you see on, you know, t-shirts often, in [00:30:00] places like Hawaii is the, the old like pirate saying the, the beatings will continue until that morale improves. And, and that's, that doesn't work anymore. You have to meet people where they are
Julie Harris Oliver: No, it really doesn't.
Mike Shea: are. You have to. You have to learn their, their style, and you need to learn to speak their language. There, and there are lots of tools out there for that where you can, you know, you can do the Myers-Briggs or you can do any of the four quadrant models.
There's Enneagram, there's a whole bunch of ways you can figure out who you are or how you present and how your people present. Yeah. And then you can learn to speak their language. I, you know, I jokingly call it the work love languages. Like you figure out what their work love language is and you try to speak it because that's courteous.
Julie Harris Oliver: Hmm. Beautiful.
Mike Shea: and actually it's how you get that extra 10 to 15% of performance outta your people as it makes them, it makes them feel comfortable and seen, and that they want to produce as opposed to being afraid if they don't produce.
Julie Harris Oliver: And have you met Gen Z? They're not gonna put [00:31:00] up with that for a minute.
Mike Shea: good for them.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, yeah.
Mike Shea: It's, I was talking with a teacher a couple months back talking about like how they have like this little thing on the desk that's kinda like a, kinda like when you go to the, the Brazilian barbecues and they have the little thing that you turn over and one color means bring me meat and the other color means don't,
Julie Harris Oliver: Mm-hmm.
Mike Shea: colors that they can put on their desks.
The teacher knows what the emotional state of the student is. I had a really interesting reaction. My initial reaction was like, really? Like, that's a little,
Julie Harris Oliver: Suck it up. Cry babies.
Mike Shea: that's my dad's voice. Like that's not me. Like, wow. They're like, this educational system has become a source of teaching children how to recognize their emotions and how to self-manage.
I'm like, wow, I wish I had had that in junior high and high school. Like how powerful. So. We hear a lot about, oh, those Gen Z guys, they don't wanna work and all of that. I hear that all the time, but like, in some ways good for them. They know what they want, they know [00:32:00] what they'll tolerate, , and they're much more, I think, they're much more self-aware than my generation was at at their age.
Julie Harris Oliver: Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah, they wanna, they wanna have purpose and meaning in their work. They wanna know that you're asking them to do something that matters and has a reason and why. Yeah, they're not gonna sit there and look busy to make someone happy.
Mike Shea: Nope. And they're gonna ask questions.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah.
Mike Shea: know why, and that's good. need
Julie Harris Oliver: So get ready. The questions are coming.
Mike Shea: Yep.
Julie Harris Oliver: All right, Mike, where can people find you?
Mike Shea: My personal email's probably the best way to get ahold of me right now. M as in Michael, J as in John Shea, MJSHEA71@gmail.com. reach out if you're interested in some coaching.
Julie Harris Oliver: Mike Shea, thank you so much for doing this,
Mike Shea: Thanks,
Julie Harris Oliver: and thank you for being so vulnerable and telling this whole story.
Mike Shea: My pleasure. Take care.
Julie Harris Oliver: Bye.
This has been deep work out loud. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. I'd like to thank Mike Shea for joining the podcast and telling that incredible story. And if [00:33:00] any of this resonates with you, please subscribe, leave review at all the podcast places. If you'd like to work with me, you can find me at julieharrisoliver.com and let me leave you with this.
What might it look like to start noticing your emotions and how your body feels in certain situations. As you think about how you want to show up in the world, try some things. Report back. Thanks for listening. See you next time.