EP 9 Heart Wounds in Leadership with Krista Johnson | Deep Work Out Loud
Julie Harris Oliver: . Welcome to Deep Work Out Loud, the thinking that fuels our life, our work, and our leadership. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. This is the podcast where I sit with another professional coach and we do some work around a single idea, a piece of inspiration, something we've been thinking about a lot, and if we're really lucky while we're talking about it, we might get a couple minutes of coaching so you can see what that might look and feel like.
But we'll see how it goes. It's an experiment With any luck, you'll leave with something you can apply and use in your work or your life, or both. Today I'm here with Krista Johnson. Krista is an organizational psychology practitioner and executive coach known for her passion for human behavior, adult learning, and transformative leadership.
She currently leads organizational development and executive coaching at Saks Global for Saks Fifth Avenue, Neiman Marcus, and Bergdorf Goodman, where she built the company's first internal coaching practice and partners directly with senior officers.
Krista holds undergraduate degrees in anthropology [00:01:00] and world religion, pursued master studies in human dynamics and counseling psychology, and earned her ICF credential at the Hudson Institute of Coaching and is a certified Enneagram and Fierce conversations practitioner, fierce conversations practitioner.
I wanna hear all about that.
She lives in Dallas with her partner Kayla and their Shihtzu Mix Ming, and can often be found exploring art, food, and global travel. Welcome Krista.
Krista Johnson: Thank you, Julie. So good to be with you.
Julie Harris Oliver: Thanks so much for doing this.
Krista Johnson: I know. I'm so thrilled.
Julie Harris Oliver: Okay, so before we dig in, what was your journey to becoming a coach and also what is fierce conversations about?
Krista Johnson: Okay, well, I'll start with fierce conversations first. That's probably an easier one, but this is a concept idea by Susan Scott, and it's the idea that if we have the courage to talk about the thing, say the thing out loud and do it from a place of heart and intention, it can change lives, it can change relationships, it can repair teams, repair organizations.
So it's all about finding the [00:02:00] courage to say what we need to say out loud.
Julie Harris Oliver: Beautiful. If only we could all do that all the time.
Krista Johnson: I know I love that and it's a wonderful book, so I highly recommend that book. Fierce Conversations by Susan Scott. Um, my journey to coaching, I think really coaching found me. I didn't, I didn't find coaching, you know, I, I look back over my career and I had moments as in the mental health space. I had moments in the l and d space, and as I reflect back, it was almost as if.
All of these little stepping stones were leading me to coaching with me not even really realizing it. And so as I found myself really enjoying leaning into the mental health space and understanding human behavior, there was also something missing for me. I think my, my heart was fulfilled in that space, but my head was a little bit bored and I needed more stimulation.
So I found myself in the corporate behavior, human behavior space, and then realized after having a coach myself. Oh, this is, this is what this all [00:03:00] means. This is this moment to sit with another person, hold space in a corporate environment, and do some really meaningful work that has the power to transform again lives, and transform organizations, transform teams.
So I decided to pursue Hudson a couple years ago, and it was the best, the best, uh, decision I had made is to pursue my coaching certification.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. Wonderful. It, it never ceases to surprise me like what a rich playground work is for our personal development. Okay. What did you wanna bring to talk about today?
Krista Johnson: So I had, you know, when you and I were chatting originally at all these ideas, and I remember you and I connected over one and we both kind of lit up around one, which was heart wounds and leadership. And so that continues to show up in my work, and it's something I've been playing around with a little bit.
It's not a new or novel idea many thought leaders have have written on the piece, but I'm starting to see [00:04:00] these heart wounds be present in how we run our teams, how we, you know, run ourselves in, in the corporate space. And I think it's a rich conversation to have.
Julie Harris Oliver: Okay, where do we begin?
Krista Johnson: Well, okay, let's start with maybe what a heart wound is.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah.
Krista Johnson: Could that be helpful? So when I think about a heart wound, I think about something that's maybe an unresolved emotional imprint. Something from a past experience that maybe shapes how we show up or how a person really protects themselves, um, in the present.
So it's something from the past that we're bringing into the present. And you know, in psychological terms, it's really reflects a learned pattern, right? It's a learned pattern in our nervous system, and it's something in our core beliefs that really once served us. It served us and there was an adaptive purpose of why we had that, that wound or that way of thinking or being, but now it really starts to, what I see, really constrain flexibility or constrain connection, constrain [00:05:00] growth, and we really carry them silently, but they shape our behavior and they shape our relationships.
Julie Harris Oliver: I think so often we are completely unaware of them,
Krista Johnson: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: but it's something that may, may really have helped you when you were a child or at so some point in your life that was the greatest thing that you ever did because it helped you survive, whatever the thing is. But then realizing as an adult, oh, that's not actually helping in this moment, is actually hurting me.
Krista Johnson: No, and and they're, they, you're a hundred percent right. They really are early life experiences. They come from, you know, whatever happened that core wound in childhood or even just our way of being in our internal family system. But they shape our beliefs about safety, about worthiness, about belonging, about trust.
But again, you're so right. At one point, they really were helpful for us, but I think as leaders and as adults, we have to decide. Is this wound? What, what work do I need to do to heal [00:06:00] this wound? And is this way of being, this way of thinking, this way of existing, serving me or disturbing me?
Julie Harris Oliver: So it might be an example. We're talking really broad terms right now.
Krista Johnson: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so I'll, I'll see. Wound show up in things like over functioning or over responsibility, right? Maybe emotional distancing or guardedness.
Julie Harris Oliver: Hmm.
Krista Johnson: Maybe that can look like hyper independence or perfectionism. In a work environment, it can also look like maybe approval seeking or conflict avoidance.
Um, another one is difficulty trusting or delegating like it needs to be all me, you know, my heart wound personally is, is hyper vigilance. You know, I grew up in a home that was kind of a chaotic home and although my parents did a wonderful job and you know, raised us and my brother and we, you know, we had a wonderful life.
There was emotional. Dysregulation in my home. And what that did for me is it taught me to [00:07:00] scan my environment and scan for how the adults were so I could orient myself and I could survive in my system. Right? And so what that looks like today, and it's something I work on with my own coach and I have to constantly be aware of, is.
Over scanning my environment, over orienting myself to keep myself safe when that takes a lot of my mental capacity that I could be using for strategy or visioning or connecting with my team. But instead I'm in here scanning and trying to be vigilant. And so that is a heart wound that again, I'm, I'm continuously working to heal and, and to move from.
Julie Harris Oliver: Right. And calling it empathy
Krista Johnson: And calling it empathy. The reframe.
Julie Harris Oliver: times. Yeah.
Krista Johnson: Yeah, the reframe.
Julie Harris Oliver: So a lot of those things you mentioned early on, the overperforming, the independence, like all of those things so often are so rewarded at work. So then [00:08:00] how do you find the spot between sometimes that really serves you and that gets you to a high level as opposed to that's really getting in your way of, of who and who you wanna be and how you wanna show up.
Krista Johnson: Life is so. Funny, right? It, it, our life follows these uni universal laws around polarity. You know, we have North Pole, south Pole, night and day, like it just is. That's just around us in our universe. And I see that same polarity in our human behavior. You know, what serves us can equally disservice us. And I talk about that a lot.
And coaching, I'm sure you do too, and. As we manage ourselves, but also as coaches, as we work with with our clients to understand where has this behavior moved from service to disservice, and where may this be an over-functioning competency or capability, and is this way of being this belief system This.
Way of thinking, is this serving the life that my client says she wants or the goal that my client [00:09:00] says he's trying to achieve? And then how do we start to do some work around untangling, like untangling the belief system that has kept that wound packed, know, act in there and safe. Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: Can we talk about how you might start to a, identify that and then untangle it?
Krista Johnson: Yeah, so when I think about identifying it for myself, it's just getting really clear and present around and, and almost like I. Looking at my life, zoomed out and, and being able to look down on my life and saying, are these is this way of being, serving me? Right? So getting really clear and honest with myself and doing that in partnership with a coach.
Same thing. You know, obviously as, as coaches in the work that we do and getting really connected and asking meaningful questions with our clients. , Now I forgot the question that you, that you asked me.
Julie Harris Oliver: How do you identify that this is a thing that is a heart wound that I'm [00:10:00] reacting to?
Krista Johnson: Mm-hmm. You know, I think it's through, through observation, through really tough questions and asking yourself in this moment, was I on autopilot or was I showing up in an intentional way? So, for example, what I know about my own heart wound as I shared moment ago is that hypervigilance. And so I know my autopilot, if left unchecked, is going to be in the space of of hypervigilance, and so the ability to interrupt that autopilot and say, I wanna make a different choice and I wanna do something differently.
I don't know, honestly, Julie, if I would've been able to uncover. My own heart wound without the help of coaches and practitioners and people who I could really trust because it really required me to have meaningful conversations and look at my life critically and my way of being and showing up. But once I was able to open up and find a practitioner and a coach that I really trusted from there, it's okay.
Now, you [00:11:00] know, there's a quote, I'm, I don't know who said it, but once you know, it's hard to pretend that, that you don't know, right? So
Once
Julie Harris Oliver: Once you know better, you have to do better,
Krista Johnson: Once you know better, you have to do better. And it's, I can't pretend that I don't know this now. I know this about myself. We've named it. We've named that it's hypervigilance.
So from there, what do I do with it?
Julie Harris Oliver: right? What do you do with it?
Krista Johnson: It is a constant empathy, showing empathy for myself. Showing myself that empathy, you know, that I show so freely, show to others. And so when I have a moment when a leader that's in my care has a moment and they're not showing up in the way that they wanted to, it's observing the behavior really through a non-judgmental lens.
Like, let's look at this almost like we're investigators. Let's inspect reality. What was the situation? What was the action? What was the result? And how do we look at that suspend judgment. [00:12:00] And decide to make a different choice.
Julie Harris Oliver: really strikes me as a cultural shift in work. And in, in companies when we've gone from such a, , direction and control, please be robot as much as possible at work, really coming into, you know, heart-centered, heart led leadership. What do you think about that?
Krista Johnson: I think it's worthy, it's a worthy work. , I am in it every single day and so I may be a little biased, but it is a shift and it's a needed shift. You know, leaders are craving connection. They're craving understanding their craving rhythm in their work. And we need each other. Really in the workplace now, more than ever, especially in my workplace, there's significant change, significant [00:13:00] uncertainty.
You know, the macroeconomic environment is not helpful or kind to luxury retail right now. You know, a merger and acquisition, all the complex things that come with that, and. Heart-centered leadership and having a reflective practice, right, to know what is important to me, what values do I wanna embody.
Being able to reflect on how we're showing up as leaders and being able to then connect with other people around that is. To me critical right now, and that's what we're really trying to do in a lot of the programs that I'm leading within my system, is how do we help leaders wrestle with those enduring human capabilities that aren't soft skills like strategic thinking and you know, strategic communication, but more about personal agility, emotional regulation, reflective practice.
And so it's a shift, a needed shift.
Julie Harris Oliver: For sure, especially considering. You know, AI is coming in so fast [00:14:00] and it's not gonna do this part. The world is literally on fire everywhere we look, and we still want people to come to work and do their best and be emotionally regulated and lead people through all the strategic things that need to happen through fast in order to be effective.
It is, I just wanna echo it is such worthy work and so important.
Krista Johnson: It's, and I was, even just yesterday in a conversation I was having with a, with an executive, we were, we were talking about presence and,
Julie Harris Oliver: Mm-hmm.
Krista Johnson: and being in our bodies and how so much of our days being senior executives in a really competitive, fast paced moving organization and industry, our days are spent from here up.
You know, I am, I am here up most of the time and
Julie Harris Oliver: And if you're just listening, that is like chin to the top of your head.
Krista Johnson: yes, yes, yes. So it's, yeah, it's that collarbone, that chin to the top of the head. I'm in my thinking [00:15:00] center and it takes conscious and and intentional work to drop in into my body. And we were talking about little things we can do just to maintain presence as leaders, like feel our feet in our shoes.
Or put our feet, you know, both feet on the ground while we're having a conversation. And those little things in themselves, they are not groundbreaking, but for corporate leaders to start in the workplace, for us to be talking about embodiment and us to be talking about presence. Like 10 years ago when I was leading l and d programs at another luxury retailer, those words were not even in my vocabulary to even think that they would've been brought into the workplace.
Julie Harris Oliver: No.
Krista Johnson: the system is demanding it. And although I have at times been labeled a little woo woo in the workplace, the my executive population is responding really well to this.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, I bet. I'm in LA right now where woowoo is the baseline, everything else grows from [00:16:00] that. , And it sounds like it all really comes down to, as you said, presence and we've talked a lot about presence on this podcast, but you really can't go through work or life or anything an autopilot anymore.
Krista Johnson: Mm.
Julie Harris Oliver: It's just not gonna work.
Krista Johnson: It's not our, our old ways of being and we think about heart wounds, the ways that we think about adolescence, the, the way of being, the way of thinking that protected us in adolescence, then protected us maybe in our early twenties and shielded us as we were learning about the world and, you know, deciding who we wanted to be in the world and all of these things.
And now we find ourselves in these corporate careers, or we find ourself as a coach, spending time with people in these environments, those old ways of being. They're not, they're not enough. Not only are they not enough, they, they really leave us feeling empty and burnt out and disconnected from each other.
And so when I think about being a coach and how important this work is, I think about helping our clients, you know, [00:17:00] sense the world around them, get off of autopilot, but realize what tools they have in their tool belt. To do things differently to kind of match this complex environment and to your point that AI is not not going to do for us.
Julie Harris Oliver: No. So how do you start to work with executives or leaders? That is not, 'cause this could go super therapy direction, right? And we're not trying to do that at work. So then how do you work with people to kind of catch, define the heart wounds, catch it, and then what sort of practices do you put in
Krista Johnson: Yeah. So I, I think as we start to explore belief systems, right? And, you know, we're not touching internal family system work or we're not, we're not touching any of that thera those therapeutic ways of being, but it is appropriate as you know, in our coaching conversations to start to understand like, where do you think that that belief came from, and do you feel like that self, that belief is self-limiting or does.
Support the person that you wanna be today. So as you start to untangle that, some words will start to [00:18:00] pop out, right? Their own words that you can then as a practitioner and as a coach, start to put into categories, right? So if you start to see things like. Perfectionism or you start to see things like hyper independence and helping them name it the power in helping someone name maybe what they're experiencing and this isn't diagnosing, right?
Our work is not diagnosed, and this isn't pathology, but this is naming the thing. Seeing if it, oh yeah, that is what I'm experiencing or that does connect to my experience. And then creating the container that we can just explore and play, right? We create the container to play around with that thing.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. And what's that thing even mine to begin with? Or have I been carrying around this thing that it's actually someone else's?
Krista Johnson: Oh, say more about that because that really interesting.
Julie Harris Oliver: I am. I'm thinking about, like, I'm thinking about a particular client where so many of, , the way they're behaving based on the beliefs that they have. [00:19:00] As soon as we started picking them apart, they weren't their beliefs at all. They were their parents' beliefs that they hadn't yet taken the time to consider, do I wanna actually adopt that for myself or am I just gonna act on autopilot because that's what I heard all my life.
Krista Johnson: 100%.
Julie Harris Oliver: So then interrupting that and realizing how limiting those beliefs were, because they weren't even that person's.
Krista Johnson: Right, right. They weren't even mine to begin with and I to exist in the system. I think that's the other thing too, we forget, is we are part so many systems and so are the leaders that I coach, their home system, their past systems, their current systems, and. As we start to untangle things, we have to decide what did I take on?
So I survived in that system. You know, I'll work with leaders who are showing up almost in fight or flight, and, you know, I'll ask, I'll ask questions and, and, and, you know, sometimes we'll uncover that. Yeah. The current situation they're in is really their nervous system is shot as a [00:20:00] result of that. Other times we'll unpack that.
Oh no, that's an old tape I've been playing. That is a, that is something that a leader said to me one time, maybe gave me feedback that I am too. I'm too much, I'm too bold. I talk too much. And now I've carried that with me as a rock in my backpack. And we get to collectively in that container that we're playing around, decide I wanna, not only do I wanna take that rock outta my backpack, I'm putting my backpack down altogether.
I'm not carrying that anymore.
Julie Harris Oliver: I noticed for myself I was in a job, probably my last corporate job where I was in a situation and I found myself really reacting, emotionally angry, freaked out. It was from three jobs ago. That reaction, and then I had to really like, wait a minute. That is not happening right now. That is
Krista Johnson: It's so real.
Julie Harris Oliver: old.
Krista Johnson: I know it's an old tape, but it's so real because our, our nervous system doesn't, if it's, if we haven't healed. Or found a way to regulate from that past experience. It's still so present. It's still so real. [00:21:00] You know, I'm living something similar right now. You know, I have a new leader in, in my current role and.
Enneagram. You know, I, I'm an Enneagram practitioner, so if anyone who's listening likes to Enneagram, you know, I'm an Enneagram three and he's an Enneagram nine and Enneagram threes, we have this Drive to succeed competitive achiever, uh, a drive toward action. Go, go, go. And a significant amount of my life, I've been rewarded for that speed.
Julie Harris Oliver: Sure.
Krista Johnson: And, and that way of being, but that served me and equally disturbed me. There was a lot of things that weren't supportive in my behavior in that way. And, you know, my new leader, he's an adaptive peacemaker with the core motivation to keep the peace and to maintain harmony. And I will tell you every conversation that I have with him, it's like I take a deep breath, if that makes
Julie Harris Oliver: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Krista Johnson: Like he is, has the, the pedal on the gas that's healing to me. Um, and I, I need to tell him that I haven't told him that yet. Maybe I'll send this
Julie Harris Oliver: Just send him this,
Krista Johnson: [00:22:00] Yeah, I'll just send him the podcast. But that is, that's the flip side of this, right? Yes, we may have these wounds, but when we find ourselves in community with people that are so different than us and encourage us to like have a different way of being how healing that can be, we, and we know we heal in community and so that's allowing me to slow down and be really present.
And I want our leaders to have more experiences like that.
Julie Harris Oliver: And then I'm wondering as you're talking about this, how much of this work, this isn't gonna be the right question, how much of this work can you do if you're still in an environment that isn't really conducive to it, where there's still a lot of adaptive behavior because of the environment you're in? I know there's a certain amount you can do yourself, but you're still gonna be so affected by the culture around you.
So what do you think about that? What? What's the right question I'm trying to ask you right now? You know what I
Krista Johnson: I think that is the right question because in a perfect world we would be in systems that are healthy with [00:23:00] cultures and we all have reflective practices
Julie Harris Oliver: everyone's done their work. I.
Krista Johnson: everyone has is in the work and they're doing the work. Um, and they're committed. You know, my dad. Has a quote and he, well, he said to me since I was little, and it is the water only sinks the ship if it gets inside the ship.
And I come from a Long Navy family,
Julie Harris Oliver: Oh
Krista Johnson: so I'll say that again. Water only sinks the ship if it gets inside the ship. And I think about that a lot. You know, the news, the world around us, the state, you know, I'm I'm L-G-B-T-Q, my partner and I, we constantly are talking about is it safe for us? You know, what this like for us right now?
Will, will we be able to get married? What does that look like? And what I realize is that that's the water. The water underneath us is the world. It's, it's the systems, it's the world around us, but we are the ship and all we can control is how we ride on the waves of life. And sometimes it'll be calm and [00:24:00] sometimes the waves will be huge and sometimes we'll take on water.
But we need healthy practices and connections and emotional regulation in order to keep the water, the majority of the water on the outside of the ship. Right. So
Julie Harris Oliver: I'm also thinking, and sometimes you have to man the battleship.
Krista Johnson: Ooh. Like get in the front and steer it.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, I'm just thinking all the water that you're describing, like, because it, struggle with this right now because as you said, you know, we need to regulate ourselves and be present when all of this craziness is happening out in the world, and we also still, I think, have a responsibility to affect that craziness out in the world.
Krista Johnson: Mm-hmm.
Julie Harris Oliver: And so how do you find that balance between. Demanding the battleship and battening down the hatches.
Krista Johnson: That's right. When is it safe to, to continue this metaphor, to pop up and resist?
Julie Harris Oliver: Mm-hmm.
Krista Johnson: When is it safe to, or when does the [00:25:00] situation call to kind of take cover? There's seasons in life, right? There's different situations, and I think coaching allows us to figure out what tools do we have in our tool belt to what I'm kind of playing around right now, and I know there's a probably a different way to say this or a better way, but almost meet the moment or match the moment in front of us and to read.
Read the moment in front of us with with open eyes. And be able to see is this moment, this system that I'm in, this work situation with my leader, this, you know, conflict I'm having with a colleague. Is this about me right now? What role do I play? What is mine to own and what is not mine to own? And that's where that reflective practice comes in.
And I think that's that ability to ride the wave and decide what am I putting in my backpack and what am I not?
Julie Harris Oliver: Can you share with us a technique that you share to interrupt that initial reaction so that you can [00:26:00] be reflective and kind of take a breath before you react.
Krista Johnson: Yeah, I think it all depends on the individual. As you know, so many, you know, different people need different tools in their tool belt, but that one I just shared earlier. Building on that around just the presence piece, you know, if I notice in myself that there's a conversation I'm having or there's a situation at hand.
I'm starting to move into hypervigilance, or I'm starting to feel that, that panic of like, I don't, I don't know what's going on, what they're thinking or feeling emotionally. I need to read the room, read the room, feel my feet in my shoes, take a beat, take a deep breath. Think of my tool belt. I consciously think of my tool belt.
What tools do I have in my tool belt right now? One of those tools is breathing. I'm gonna bring that tool out. Or another tool is I'm gonna move from what I feel to what I know right now. I feel like I'm not in control and that there's a lot of emotions happening and I'm not able to fully get my, my footing here with what's happening.
But what do I know to [00:27:00] be true? What I know to be true is I'm safe. My job is safe, everything's okay. So I think some of those tactics and working with our leaders to figure out what's going to be the thing for them, what tools do they really need? But it's not really fancy, it's just give yourself a second before you react.
Decide I'm gonna give myself some space before I commit that, throw that rock in my backpack, decide that something is mine to act on.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. And it, it really can be so simple. When you were saying about feeling my feet in my shoes, it reminded me of that, , positive intelligence course.
Krista Johnson: Hmm. don't know.
Julie Harris Oliver: oh, shoot. I can't remember the guy's name , anyway, positive intelligence is the course, and he talks about, , just feeling the fingerprints on your fingers. Like just taking a moment to feel the ridges of your fingerprints. Like it's so simple,
Krista Johnson: Mm-hmm.
Julie Harris Oliver: it immediately takes you into your body.
Krista Johnson: Mm-hmm.
Julie Harris Oliver: In a really simple, small, little way.
Krista Johnson: And sometimes [00:28:00] that's all we need. We need just a little interruption of autopilot so that way we can make a different choice or operate from a healthier, I guess, more regulated place. I love that one. There's so many, there's so many good techniques. You know, I have someone on my team, and we talk about this a lot, is we need to move the thought through our bodies, right?
If I'm in a meeting and maybe there's, it's complex and maybe there's differing opinions and we're trying to navigate something, maybe we're lacking resources after that meeting, even just a minute, I'll be a minute late to my next meeting, but I need to get up and physically do a lap around my house and it, these little innocuous things, it really mean nothing on their own.
As you add them up over time, they, they contribute to someone who is more. Present more in our bodies, more able to really weather those storms. But it, it's not easy. Like it, it obviously takes intention and practice and, and commitment to it.
Julie Harris Oliver: And the more that you can do it yourself, the more it affects everybody else around you. 'cause it [00:29:00] does change the space that you're sitting in to hold that present energy.
Krista Johnson: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's a really good point. Especially on teams. If leaders practice this and then demonstrate this for their teams, we really have a responsibility, those of us who are people leaders, to be not only doing this work for ourselves, but doing this work for others. And I saw a, a meme. On Instagram the other day that said, leadership requires emotional regulation.
Julie Harris Oliver: A hundred percent.
Krista Johnson: And I really believe that in order to be a successful leader and success, I'm gonna put in quotation marks 'cause whatever that means to you, but to be a present leader, to be an impactful leader, to be a leader who has empathy for others, first, having that presence with ourselves.
Julie Harris Oliver: Because we all know the CEO who has no self-regulation and flies off the handle and is a little bit crazy and makes everybody nuts and nervous and not doing their best work, and then doing the extra layer of work to try to calm that person down. [00:30:00] Like I, I see that now and I'm like, oh man, that's so irresponsible.
Like how
well.
handle yourself.
Krista Johnson: I know and, and I see, I see this too, and I hope that there'll start to be a shift in this direction. As you know, we promote individuals that are really incredible individual contributors, or they're experts at the work that they do, and we don't stop to look at. Where are their people leadership competencies?
Where is their personal agility competency? Where is their emotional regulation competency? What does that look like? Uh, so we promote and we promote and we reward, and we reward. And then we have these executives who. Are fabulous at what they do and true experts. But then there's all of these people left in in their wake, and in fact, here's conversation.
Susan Scott says, when you interact with someone, you have really three choices. You can lead them in an afterglow with an aftertaste or in an aftermath,
Julie Harris Oliver: [00:31:00] Oh, say that again.
Krista Johnson: so you can leave people in with an afterglow. With an aftertaste or in an aftermath. And those, those are really the choices. Are people better after the conversations that you have with them and, and the moment you're with them, are they left feeling a little uncertain about what just happened? they weren't able to read you Hmm.
Like a little aftertaste? Or did they crumble? Did your presence or the way you, you reacted or the way you treated them or whatever it was, did it leave them in an aftermath? And I do see that. With executives who don't, haven't really worked on presence and emotional regulation, that there's aftermath, there's bodies in their wake, and that's what we, we hope to work on.
That's what I hope to work on with young practitioners. I'm hoping to get to these managers, these first time managers, and start teaching these critical competencies now, so that way we [00:32:00] have embodied leaders later in life.
Julie Harris Oliver: Well, that's the time to do it, that that's when they need it so much when they're bumped up to suddenly they're managing people and who's ever told 'em how to do that.
Krista Johnson: I know. I know, I know.
Julie Harris Oliver: Okay. What have I not asked you about, about this topic that you'd like to share?
Krista Johnson: I think when, as coaches, when we, I think I've already shared this, but just to double down on this, when we. Are able to help our clients maybe name the heart wound, right? And we create the safety to really explore that. That's when we're able to see that expansion, right? That's when I see the presence can deepen for them.
That's when I see that their courage will strengthen. That's when I see the relationships can become more authentic. , leaders really can start to respond instead of react. They can interrupt autopilot, but there's so much from our childhood and from our first career. Moments that are shaping how we as leaders are showing up at work today.[00:33:00]
And I think it deserves, it's like you said, it's worthy work and it deserves a second look, and it deserves the space to really explore and play.
Julie Harris Oliver: And it can create monumental shifts.
Krista Johnson: Yes.
Julie Harris Oliver: I used to say in meetings that was not very popular because it was 10 years ago, and I would say, you know, you guys, we've made all of this up. Like this is all important because we've all agreed it's important, but really we're all here to help each other and work out our stuff in responsible ways.
Krista Johnson: Yes, we are all just adults, like little kids in adult bodies figuring this out. None of us have been in these bodies in this lifetime, at this age, at this moment, no. I truly believe no one really knows what they're doing. I think we're all just, I'm playing executive every day. Like that's it.
Julie Harris Oliver: Everybody is,
Krista Johnson: We all figuring it out as we go and when we can just all acknowledge that and accept that, uh, hopefully some of the ego can crumble away a little bit and like you said, we can just be together and help each other work out our stuff.
I love that.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, [00:34:00] it's so true because I remember coming up and being like a manager level and seeing the VPs and thinking they were Oh, so wise and had it together and then it became one and I was like, oh, everybody was,
Krista Johnson: Or have you seen that quote that talks about like, I wanted to be in the room so badly and then when I got in the room it's like, oh, this is what happens in the room.
Julie Harris Oliver: is terrible.
Krista Johnson: Maybe I don't wanna be in the room anymore. So yeah, it's, it's such a journey.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. Thank you so much for doing this.
Krista Johnson: Thank you for having me. I love this work so much. I appreciate you.
[00:35:00]
You can find Krista here: http://www.kristajohnsoncoaching.com/