EP 8 Cultivating Adult Friendships with Dr. Lauren Collier | Deep Work Out Loud
Julie Harris Oliver: Welcome to Deep Work Out Loud, the thinking that fuels our life, our work, and our leadership. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. This is the podcast where I sit with another professional coach and we do some work around a single concept or a piece of inspiration or a topic we've seen come up in coaching or just something we really care about.
And if we're really lucky while we're talking about it, there might be an opportunity to demonstrate what coaching might look and feel like, but we'll see how it goes. It's an experiment. With any luck, you'll leave with something you can apply and use in your work and your life, or both. Today I'm here with Dr.
Lauren Collier. Lauren is a practical academic professional coach and the founder of the Friendship Project. Lauren blends a science of connection with her real world experience as an educator and community builder to help women strengthen the relationships that fuel their clarity, confidence, and growth.
Her work centers around one core belief, who you [00:01:00] surround yourself with, shapes who you are and how you shape the life you are creating. Hi Lauren
Thanks for being here.
Lauren Collier: Thanks. Glad to be here.
Julie Harris Oliver: So before we dig in, please tell us your journey to becoming a coach. Sure.
Lauren Collier: Well, my professional roots are in social work.
I trained thinking that I was gonna be a counselor on a college campus. , Opportunities in life and career sort of shifted and I was more of a community organizer. I worked on college campuses, but more around building community partnerships. And over time my roles got more leadership, more administrative.
Frankly farther away from my social work heart. And so I, in 2020, like so many of us decided to be intentional about going back to kind of realigning for myself and did my coaching training, and it, you know, just really kind of brought me back to what I love, which is [00:02:00] the interpersonal and the connection and the life change and, and that's, that is what coaching is to me.
Julie Harris Oliver: Beautiful. Mm-hmm. All right. Now I think I know what you're gonna wanna talk about today, but why don't you tell us what our deep dive is gonna be?
Lauren Collier: Well, I'd like to talk about friendship and more specifically about finding your people as an adult through the changes and transitions and moves that our modern worlds, you know, require of us and what it takes to sustain them.
So specifically for adult women who are busy and, you know, all of those things. So let me, let me toss a question your way. Okay. And what, what has. What is your experience making new friends as a grownup been like,
Julie Harris Oliver: like this is so topical for me right this minute, because I just moved from my city, from my industry, from my network, from my safe [00:03:00] little blue state bubble to, uh, Tennessee, where I know my husband and my stepchild.
And that's, and maybe one. Friend. Um, and so I've had to be really intentional about where am I gonna find my people. They were not at Pilates, and so I, because I, I'm, I'm deep in a suburb. , And so I thought, okay, let me, let me join some things locally. I'll join the Y I'll go to Pilates, and none of that worked.
And so then I've had to go deeper into Nashville and try to figure out. Where do I need to, uh, insert myself and where do I need to go to try to find my people? And as a extroverted introvert, it's been hard, like I've had to be so like push myself to go to the thing where I'm not gonna know anybody. And I've been, I've been doing that for a year and it has paid off in that I've met a bunch of people and I have some people on text and I have some people that I see on [00:04:00] occasion, but I can't say that I found my.
My group of ladies,
Lauren Collier: , And it's hard to even know where to start because you just hit all of the buttons. Oh, good for me. So the, the, the first is, you know, when I started digging into this, like, what is the problem here? Like we know there's this social isolation, this loneliness epidemic, and. Like according to the surgeon General, 46% of us of adults say we have no true friends.
Now we have acquaintances, we have contacts, we may have, you know, social media folks, but we don't necessarily have someone to call when. Right.
Julie Harris Oliver: 46%.
Lauren Collier: 46%. It's a global stat and it holds true in the us So we are all sort of alone in our loneliness. So that's the first. So then I'm like, okay, so what? What is the problem we're really trying to solve here?
And you just hit a couple of them. So I think there are [00:05:00] three things that we need. The first one I call alignment. Mm-hmm. And that's pretty basic. Location and openness to friendship. So that's why like when you go off to college and you're all in the same residence hall, everybody's looking for new friends.
You're all in one place, right? So that's the first. The second one I call Affinity. And this is the do we get along? Do we have chemistry? Do we have shared interests and values? It's the thing that usually takes a little like time to unearth. It's not necessarily just on the surface, like we're in the same industry, right?
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah.
Oh, that made me think of so many things because I Oh, good. I've noticed, culturally moving to the south, there is a dance you have to do to figure out if you have affinity with people. And these days, let's be real, it's mostly political. Yes. , And religious.
Yes. And so I, I've found it's, it's, for me, it's a little weird here, right? Where you have to [00:06:00] really feel people out, and it takes a long time and it's so polite, like it's a little unnerving for me.
Lauren Collier: You're like, can I just stamp
on my forehead? You know, these are the three things I'm looking for. Please.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, you're, you're exactly right. And the last, you know, is that there is no shortcut to time and shared experience. So coming back to where you started, , you talked about some of the places you go to look for community. You said Pilates, you said some of these like professional associations and some of those are hit and some of those are miss.
Mm-hmm. I guess I would, I would ask you, what do you think is missing or what, what would you like to find that would make that easier?
Julie Harris Oliver: Oh gosh, that is a good question. 'cause I will tell you, I have met my people going to pottery. I found this great group of women who, you know, it took months of us all sitting at the wheel and we're gossiping while we're doing [00:07:00] it.
And then I realized, oh, half of these women recently moved here. Oh, all of these women are now empty nesters. All of them are looking for friendship. And it took, and it took one brave person to say, would you allall like to go out to dinner? After the, you know, so then we organized a dinner, and then at dinner everyone confessed they were looking for friends.
, It still hasn't gone much outside of that. Right. But, but that has been a good connection.
Lauren Collier: ,
What I love about that. It's one of the first few you words you used, which is intention. You talked about your own intention, putting yourself out there, weathering the awkward coffees, going to whatever, kind of like hobby or you know, association or meetup or whatever that made sense for you, and then being willing to take that next step or responding when somebody else did.
And that intention, I think it's crucial, right?
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. And it's funny 'cause there, there are some [00:08:00] cities where notoriously people's groups of friends or people they went to high school with, you know, Minneapolis is a place like that. Seattle is a place like that. Okay. And Nashville is a city of transplants for a becoming that way For sure.
Yeah. So, and. So that, that requires a different sort of effort. 'cause sometimes, say in Minneapolis or Seattle, it might take you years to get into an, into a group. 'cause people have groups and they don't need new people. Right. So what do you do?
Lauren Collier: Well, I think, I mean, one of the other things that I think, I think it's maybe more specific to Nashville, but it's, it, it's not.
You know, truly an outlier is that Nashville is growing. So yes, there's a lot of transplants, but a lot of the infrastructure, the, the networking that's specifically for, especially, this is what I'm hearing, professional women at different stages hasn't caught up in Nashville. So if you're in Chicago or San Francisco or New York, there is an an [00:09:00] anticipation and expectation that there's a lot of.
Especially, again, women is where, where my heart is and where my focus is, that there, there are spaces for that explicitly and I have not found those, honestly. I've looked, I've, I looked when I moved to Nashville 10 years ago, and I've looked again recently 'cause I've gone through my own transition. I'm still here, but all of my friends have left
Julie Harris Oliver: rude.
Lauren Collier: Yes. I mean, and it's a back to the drawing board and it's sad and I've honestly, I've grieved because I did invest, I nurtured that group for 10 years and I'm back to the drawing board anyway.
Julie Harris Oliver: Oh man.
Lauren Collier: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: Okay, so what's your plan, Lauren?
Lauren Collier: Sure. So my, my plan is to, I've been creating a path as a friendship facilitator to curate circles of women, and I'm doing that intentionally.
When we talked about these three things, [00:10:00] uh, local, open to friendship, we can, we can call in those women who are seeking. Hey, if we're all here for the same reason, there's no shame in that, right? Some of that I think is always this embarrassment of like, oh, I'm socially awkward, or, no, there's nothing wrong here.
Yeah, it's just that. You're at a place, you, your needs aren't being met and you need new friends. So we're gonna curate circles of women around local. And one true thing, to me that is something a little deeper than just a hobby group. The ceramics is a great example, but it also takes a while. And you could have been in a group with people that were not at all aligned for your sort of.
Place in life. Yeah. So, and then we're going to take an intentional shared learning path together, and this is where the, the coaching and the instructor and me come together. But also I'm the one who's always put together the book club. I have no kidding been the bridesmaid [00:11:00] 17 times, counting only the ones you have address.
Like I wanna create those spaces where we're getting into deeper meaning together. 'cause I think that's where we learn, hey, yeah, we are, we are aligned. And even if we're not, we now know what we're looking for. Right. Sometimes we're looking for where we're going, not necessarily where we've been.
Julie Harris Oliver: Would you go back to the one true thing?
Yes. What do you mean by that?
Lauren Collier: So I think that our current world is set up, and your example is perfect for this, for sort of shared spaces, places where we look to connect, but they're not really designed for friendship. Right. They're professional networks and many of 'em are explicit, like, no, we are about business here.
Mm-hmm. You wanna socialize that's on your own time. Same for hobby groups, whether it's ceramics or run clubs, that's where people are. But you may not [00:12:00] necessarily get to that next level that says, oh wait, we've got more than just ceramics in common. It takes somebody being intentional to do that. Um, so when I say one true thing.
I'm, I'm often looking to, for the thing that when you talk to someone, they will reveal, but it's never gonna be on their, on their social media post. examples, I've just gone through a divorce and I'm figuring out how to be a single parent. Hmm. All of the friends that I've had that are also parents, they're still my friends, but we have a different set of like needs and expectations and constraints right now.
Lauren Collier: Like, it's not that I'm firing these folks, but it's, I may need some different folks around me right now. Right? So,
Julie Harris Oliver: oh, I found a lot of folks fired me when I got divorced and had children.
Lauren Collier: The same, whether it's because of you or because of them. I've heard that repeatedly. All of a sudden, I'm not invited anymore.
[00:13:00] Why?
Yeah, so I think there are a lot of those, and again, where this connects with coaching to me is those are often at women's life transitions, right? Mm-hmm. It's you move, you start a new job, sometimes it's a leadership role, and all of a sudden you can't necessarily be as open with your friends that you met at work in the same way.
It's only at the top. It's absolutely true, you know? You get married, you don't get married. All of a sudden you and your, your crew are out of sync. You have a baby, you don't have a baby. Maybe you go through something really significant, you know, pain, loss, illness. All of a sudden there's a disconnect there.
So that's where a lot of time, when I say one truth thing, it's often, at least in my. Experience observation when it's a, it's a pretty significant transition and you just realize like, Hey, I may need some other folks around me right now.
Julie Harris Oliver: Mm-hmm.
Do you think this [00:14:00] changed around the pandemic?
Lauren Collier: A hundred percent.
, , I think a number of things happened for us. One, we lost a lot of skills. Like, yeah, a lot of us just retreated and I gotta tell you, I was happy about it for a long time, for sure. I sure I always guilty for that, but I love not having fomo, but also being able to sit at home. Yeah, so there was a relief there.
So I think there was some like, honestly, relational skill loss. I think the other side of that is that when you mentioned this disconnect around things like political divides, a lot of those were really brought to the surface and there were a lot of ruptures that haven't healed. So I think a lot of us, I, I think you're absolutely right.
There's also some practical things like many of us started working from home and never went back. Right. So you think structurally about the way we live our lives, I saw a crazy stat, I'm gonna get this wrong, but it was something like [00:15:00] 70% of people that like order in restaurants, eat alone, most of them at home.
So they order from a restaurant, but they get it delivered. You know, Uber Eats, whatever, GrubHub. So most folks, you know, they, they were not even eating together,
right.
Julie Harris Oliver: It's so funny to to think about how much has changed in five years. Yeah. I did a, I did another episode with Laura London and we were talking about, um, forest bathing, which is, uh, you know, coming from Japan to try to solve this.
I sit in front of a desk all day long, but it's funny that things that used to be so natural in kindergarten, you went up to someone and said, Hey, you wanna be my friend, right. That now we have to relearn how to do that and be so intentional and thoughtful and put in so much effort. It's crazy. Yes.
Lauren Collier: And then you put that in this broader context of busyness.
Right? Right. Less time you're working, whether you have family or [00:16:00] caregiving obligations. Just, just maneuvering through life takes a lot of time. , I kind of dug in and I found a stat that said women spend three to five hours each week planning to get three to five hours of actual social time. And that's assuming you do it right?
Because half the time, if you're me, I'm like, I'd really love to see people, but do I really want to start the calling, the texting, the calendaring, the doodle polls, the reservation making the, like logistical planning. Oh, and it's traffic and, and you know, we kind of were just like, eh,
Julie Harris Oliver: well,
and also it's not gonna happen until three weeks from now and that day.
Who knows if I'll still feel like going out to meet you.
Lauren Collier: A hundred percent true,
but that, that's so, such a delayed gratification. Anyway, that Yeah. You're like, uh, so I'll just sit here and scroll. Right.
Julie Harris Oliver: Because really what you mean is could you meet me for a coffee in an hour?
Lauren Collier: Right. For me, almost a hundred percent of the time, it's like, will you go to walk with me?
Yeah. Yeah.
Can we come [00:17:00] sit, come sit on my porch? Right. Like, I just like, let's pour some coffee or a glass of wine and let's just like hang out, solve all the world's problems.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. So what is this gonna look like? Your friendship circles?
Lauren Collier: Sure. So first step is sort of through two paths. One, if you're interested.
I have a very, very short, I think it's seven questions, two minute survey. Where are you? What are you looking for roughly? You know what that one true thing is? So the second path is that I'm working with businesses and organizations that have some community mission.
They're professional organizations, they're, uh, yoga studios. There are even, um, communities like apartment complexes, uh, places where women go naturally to connect, but that often don't really help structure to meet that need. Um. Again, facilitating [00:18:00] friendship, moving beyond the surface and, and kind of creating some norms and expectations, but also rebuilding some of those social muscles, uh, that help us be intentional.
Um, you know, it is, the reality is it's awkward. You're just gonna have to lean into the awkward a little bit, and hopefully as a friendship facilitator, I can take on some of that awkward for folks.
Julie Harris Oliver: ,
So does that look like a dinner? Does it look like a group walk? What does it look? Does it look like a meetup?
What does it look
like?
Lauren Collier: So what, what I've actually put together is an eight week learning journey. So in person, um, meeting weekly. Now we, we may, and I expect this to be the case, we may need to meet hybrid, especially as we get started, uh, we'll have at least two in person and we'll have some version of shared experience that makes sense for that group.
But that. I think the, the whole there is no substitute for [00:19:00] time. , Is if you, if you really are looking for friends, you're not gonna get it in one meetup. Mm-hmm. And to have the same people coming back. And often that to me is, is a gap with existing options. You know, you, you may go to a meetup, but there's no guarantee if you go to another one that the same people are there.
Right. So that's the point of, of circling up and kind of leaning in for a period of time. To really explore what, what each of us needs, but also how that plays out. 'cause I, I think you would, would be with me, you can't learn how to do relationships in a vacuum. And often we know how, we just, we just need a little, a little prompting, a little, you know, reason.
A little motivation.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. It's not enough to say, well, I've read all about it. Right.
Lauren Collier: You're, you're exactly right. And I have read all about it and I'm still sitting here looking to.
Julie Harris Oliver: So I, I assume you're doing this in Nashville Yes. To start.
Lauren Collier: Yes.
[00:20:00] Yeah. The, the goal certainly, I, I, I think the need is there. , The goal is to figure out how to, how to do this in Nashville in a way that is meaningful. Um, and if and when I can do that, then let's take the
show on the road.
Julie Harris Oliver: Okay. Let me ask you the coaching questions.
Okay. What, what's gonna make this hard?
Lauren Collier: All
of it. I'm learning so much about myself. It's the businesses sides that are, that are hard. I love being in a room with other women. I love connecting other people, so it's not just always that I have to be in the middle of it, but I just. That's the place where I find joy.
So that part is the easy part. The harder parts are all the rest of it. Mm-hmm. The administrative tasks, the, yeah, the organizing, partnership building and organizing and structuring and all of that stuff.
Julie Harris Oliver: And
then what about for the women?
What makes it hard?
Lauren Collier: Yeah. You know, I think the first thing, and [00:21:00] you know, all of us have to one.
Overcome the scroll and the pull up the couch. Because even if we know we want friends when it's the Tuesday night and you have to get yourself up and actually go walk through the door, like it's an act of will for all of us.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah.
It's hard.
Lauren Collier: Yeah. I mean, you're gonna have to put yourself out there a bit.
all I can say is I don't know that it's gonna get easier. Right. So you either have to put yourself out there by yourself, or you're willing to go on a journey where others are saying, yeah, I'm gonna do the same.
Julie Harris Oliver: it feels
like I'm, I'm just picturing this for myself right now. and it feels like there's an, it feels a little risky.
Lauren Collier: Yeah, right. It is. I mean, I think the reality is that. Relationships are risky. They're, you know, especially sustained relationships. Right? And that's, that's part of the [00:22:00] relational, , relational health or skill is we know if we are going to be in relationship, we are gonna weather change in conflict.
So that that's even after you get over that initial hurdle of just the awkwardness of small talk and getting to know you and do we actually have anything in common, but I think that's, it's very real. I think the value of then doing this together is that you have ideally, and kind of the way I've structured this is that we are building some shared expectations, some shared language to, to negotiate these things together, which I think has gotten lost.
Like we have that expectation in our partnerships, like romantic partnerships often at work because we simply have to, but. I think a lot of that has been lost in our friendships 'cause we literally or figuratively move on.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. Well it, and I think, I think we can probably all agree, [00:23:00] it's almost like when you're first dating someone, like I always thought I wanna get to the middle of the relationship because we get to the middle, like where we just totally know each other and rely on each other.
Yes. Know, you know, what we're dealing with. I think it's the same thing with friendship. Like, I want the friends who are gonna come over and be as comfortable in my kitchen, and I'm gonna be as comfortable in their kitchen. , You know, physical or metaphysical. The right. No, metaphorical, not their metaphysical meta.
Yes. But you know what I mean. Like the, so you can call a friend last minute and be like, uh, will you come help me with this thing, or Yes. You know, can I meet you for a thing? That's so in the middle of the friendship. It is. And so it's getting through that first part, and I think what you're offering is to get through that part with intention and, and what is the other word I'm looking for?
Lauren Collier: I, I think intention is the right word. I, I would also hope openness, like. Hey, yeah, I know I need this and [00:24:00] I'm willing to, to learn about myself. I'm willing to learn about you and let's figure out what we can create together. There is a you even intention, meaning like, I will show up, I'm gonna put the time in.
Doesn't really count for much if you are going to remain distant, emotionally closed, et cetera.
Julie Harris Oliver: .
So there's also a piece of accountability with it is being expected to show up, but also show up in a certain way, not with your arms crossed.
Lauren Collier: I, which, you know, my hope this is not mandatory, right? Like this is not a required professional training at work.
If you are opting into this, then I think you're saying, Hey, yeah, I, I really am looking to build new friendships or to strengthen my, Skills, my intentionality with the relationships I have, which is also important. You know, I talked to one woman the other day who's like, uh, it might be the rarity, but I have too many friends.
My question to her [00:25:00] was, are you aligning your energy with the people who also feed your soul?
Julie Harris Oliver: And also, you don't have to brag about it.
Lauren Collier: Well, fair, fair. But she immediately was like, yeah, you're right. I, I do spend more time with, it's kind of the squeaky wheel. The emotional vampires seem to get more of me, and then I have nothing left when I want to actually hang out with the people who are the ones who are, are good with me, good for me
Julie Harris Oliver: And I, I think it's true for women especially, that we do tend to hang on to those relationships that don't feed us. For whatever reason or obligation or longevity.
Lauren Collier: Sure.
Julie Harris Oliver: And so it, it's interesting to, I can't tell you how many conversations I've had with girlfriends about how do I put a boundary around this relationship that's not good for me, but I don't know how to, you know, this person's been in my life since we were five.
How do you stop being friends with them after 50 years?
Lauren Collier: My belief, and this has a lot to do with, with [00:26:00] coaching and is that. Sometimes it's a boundary, sometimes it's a negotiation we've never actually had. Right? I, I think often we assume, especially with our friends, that they know what we need and we assume what they're thinking, but, but we don't necessarily negotiate the relationship itself in the same way.
So what happens is. I just had a baby. You don't have children. I assume that you should be one. Aware how my life has changed. You should be coming to me. I don't, I don't have flexibility. And when you don't do that, I get my feelings hurt. And then on the other side it is, why does our whole friendship have to revolve around your kid now?
Right. But they, there has never been this open or this even this ability to say like, okay, hey. We're in different places right now. That's okay. Here's what I have to give. Cool. Here's what I [00:27:00] need. Is there a way we can find a middle ground? Often we just sort of like let time and space do its work. Mm-hmm.
Or I need to set a boundary. You know, it, maybe it is, but maybe it's a conversation that that needs to be had so that you keep the door open for the next season where you are more aligned.
Julie Harris Oliver: That's so mature and healthy.
Lauren Collier: Wouldn't you love all of your friends or all the pool of the people around you to all be thinking that way?
Julie Harris Oliver: Yes. What a relief that
would
be, right? If everyone did their work. A hundred percent right? What a place. Yeah. Yes.
Lauren Collier: Well, and I think that's where there's a, a really nice, um, intersection with coaching, right? Because I think, you know, there will be women. Maybe many women who recognize patterns of behavior that they need to attend to, whether that's coaching or therapy, that are not simply just about like [00:28:00] showing up and, and, you know, going through the awkward and being willing to be open, but hey, maybe there's, there's some deeper work that does need to happen here so that I can show up with that level of emotional maturity and, and find my people then.
Julie Harris Oliver: And what's my part in, in what's been happening around me. A hundred percent. Yeah. Well, I'm excited for you to launch this. Where can people find you?
Lauren Collier: , My personal email is lauren k collier.com. Um, and there's, uh, the Friendship Project is front and center.
Julie Harris Oliver: And do you have a website for it?
Lauren Collier: Yes, it's laurenkcollier.com.
Okay. Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: Great. Yeah. Thank you so much, Lauren. This was great.
Lauren Collier: This has been such a fun conversation. We, we could almost be friends. Give it a little time.
Julie Harris Oliver: Okay. Let's meet for coffee next week.
Lauren Collier: Okay.
Julie Harris Oliver: [00:29:00] Yes.
This has been deep work out loud. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. Thank you to Lauren Collier. If any of this resonates with you, please subscribe and leave a review at all the podcast places. If you'd like to work with me, you can find me at julieharrisoliver.com and let me leave you with this. What kind of connection are you wanting in your life and what might be a step that you can take this week towards it? Try some things. Report back. Thanks for listening. See you next time.