EP 7 Finding Alignment in Your Career and Life with Ron Pratt | Deep Work Out Loud
Julie Harris Oliver: Welcome to Deep Work Out Loud, the thinking that fuels our life, our work, and our leadership. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. This is the podcast where I sit with another professional coach and we do some work around a single concept, a piece of inspiration, something we've been thinking about, a topic that's been coming up in our coaching.
If we're really lucky while we're talking about it, we might demonstrate. Minute or two of what coaching might look like and feel like. But as I've said before, this is all an experiment and we'll see how it goes. With any luck, you'll leave with something that you can apply and use in your work, in your life, or both.
And today I am here with Ron Pratt.
Ron is the founder of the Altera Collective, a boutique coaching practice that helps high achieving professionals navigate pivotal career transitions and realign their work with who they truly are. After building a successful career across consulting, finance, and executive leadership, including roles at BCG and Capital One, Ron realized that external achievement does not always translate to [00:01:00] internal fulfillment.
Isn't that the truth today? He coaches ambitious values driven professionals who feel quietly misaligned in their careers and want to move toward work that feels meaningful, sustainable, and true to their identity. His coaching approach blends depth, strategy and grounded clarity. He helps clients reconnect to themselves, diagnose what has been getting in the way and take aligned action with confidence and integrity.
Welcome, Ron.
Ron Pratt: Thanks, Julie. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
Julie Harris Oliver: So before we dig in, tell me what your journey to coaching was.
Ron Pratt: Yeah. Oh man, that's a, it depends on how much time you have, but
Julie Harris Oliver: We have all the time in the world.
Ron Pratt: fair enough. So my journey to coaching was a bit of a, a windy path.
It actually, I think it all started back in undergrad. So I was initially, going to be an elementary education major and, uh. For different reasons. I, I ended up not going that path mostly, you know, concerns about financial security. Uh, it was a [00:02:00] conversation I had with my dad that, that actually kind of spooked me about it.
and so from there I ended up switching to psychology and I, I wanted to be a child therapist and I ended up. Taking the research sequence, did not like it at all. And so ended up switching to majors again, and I wasn't sure what I was going to do at that point in time. And so I was kind of debating a little bit around, Hey, what do I want to do?
What might be the next best major? And I happened to go home you know, for, for the summer one year. And. I came across a friend who recommended the book, rich Dad, poor Dad. I read that book and I was like, oh, okay. Yeah. Like, you know, financial independence. That sounds good. He talks a lot about real estate in the book, and real estate was something I'd always been interested in.
And so was like, yeah, maybe I'll go do that. And so I, back to school, declared a major in finance and economics and ended up going that route. And so when I graduated from undergrad, I actually went the real estate private equity route. And so I worked for a couple of real estate. Private equity firms doing investment analysis [00:03:00] and property acquisitions, portfolio management, et cetera.
I did that in Seattle as well as out in New York and Boston. And know, I think what ended up happening, or I guess the first, point to where I started to feel like, Hey, maybe this is not the right thing for me, is when I was out in, in Boston and I was kind of working and I was like, man something about it just didn't feel right.
I was like, you know, I, I've worked really hard to get here and this is what I wanted, but now that I'm here, like I, I don't, something's missing. I don't really enjoy this like I thought I would. And so that sent me down a path of really starting to explore and, and really look at, okay, well if this isn't it, what, what is that that I wanna.
Do. And so I wasn't really sure how to answer that question. And so I just started taking a bunch of te like personality tests and so I took you know, Myers-Briggs and I took the disc and I took. The map and I, and there's a bunch of 'em. I can't even recall the different assessments that I took. But through that process, you know, a few things started to become clear and one was that I just, I really [00:04:00] enjoyed big picture, strategic work, and I, I enjoyed relationship management.
And I really are building authentic relationships and I really enjoyed kind of the service component to my work. And so I had you know, I was like, okay, this. This is good insight, but I'm not sure what to do about this. Around that time, my grandmother who raised me came down she got sick and so I decided to move back to Seattle from Boston to you know, be closer to home.
And so while I was back here in Seattle, I was, I was still kind of debating what I wanted to do and I, you know, started really researching what careers could. Allowed me to do the things that I knew I was interested in at that point. And I kind of came up with two paths. One was HR and then one was strategy consulting.
And so wasn't sure which one I wanted, but I felt like either way I needed to go get an MBA to make that pivot because you know, I could, I had been in real estate my whole career and felt a bit pigeonholed at that point, and so I ended. Going to get my MBA, went to the University of Michigan and then coming out of Michigan, [00:05:00] I ended up going the consulting route just because I was, I was a bit nervous about being pigeonholed again after being pigeonholed in real estate.
And so I, I did that for a couple years and moved to Washington DC after grad school, worked at BCG for a couple years game that, you know, a lot of skills. Met a lot of really great people, but that familiar feeling. Started to come back around like, Hey, this, this isn't quite it either. Something about this just doesn't fit me.
And so, you know, I ended up trying to figure out what that, what was causing that. At the time I really, I still didn't have a great answer, but I just, I knew that BCG just probably wasn't gonna be the right fit for me long term. And so I decided to leave consulting and I went to Capital One. And at Capital One, I, I started in a similar strategy role.
But then I met somebody that was at McKenzie previously and he was starting an internal group where. They were taking the folks with strategy or analytical backgrounds and giving them some training and some exposure to hr. And since that was the other career path that [00:06:00] I was interested in, I decided to, to give that a shot.
And so I did an internal rotational kind of like leadership rotational program for about a year and a half. And then on the back end of that, I ended up exiting that program into talent acquisition. And so I led talent. Led recruiting for one of Capital One's lines of, of business for a couple of years.
And that was a lot closer to, I think, something, you know, work that felt fulfilling. But it was still missing a bit of a piece. Like the work was no longer centered on profits for me was it was kinda more centered around people, which was a, I think a big piece for me. But what was still missing was the direct one-to-one kind of developmental work.
I mean, I, you know, there was a developmental piece in terms of managing my teams, but. It wasn't to the degree that I wanted and it wasn't the focal point of my work. And so over time in that role that I think I ultimately realized that was the thing that was missing. And so you know, coaching had come up over the years.
Therapy, you know, going back to school to become a therapist had popped up a few times in my head, but. The [00:07:00] coaching piece felt at this point in my career, like it was something that was a bit more feasible. Like I had enough experience to do it, and I saw a clear pathway to, to moving into that space. And so I ended up leaving Capital One at the end of 2023 and I joined Hudson's coach certification program, which as you know, which is where we met.
And then yeah, and then earlier this year I launched my own coaching practice and you know, I'm, I guess about what, nine months in. At this point and yeah, I feel like it was absolutely the right call. And I think, you know, that alignment that I had been looking for this entire time, like I finally have, have found that, and I'm in a role in a career path that just feels like it's right.
So
Julie Harris Oliver: Beautiful. I'm curious, going back to the beginning of that initially. Why were you drawn to elementary education?
Ron Pratt: Yeah, I mean, it's a great, great question. I, I mean, I think it was just natural wiring. I like, I think a few of the things that I know for me, like, so my grandmother, she, she played a really, really big role in my life, and [00:08:00] she was a, a nurse, but she she was very like, empathetic and, and really about human development.
And so I think that was something that she really instilled in me. And so I think part of it was natural wiring, but I think also part of it was just her influence on me. so wanting to give back, wanting to, you know, being fascinated and wanting to be involved with human development was something I think that was, has, has been a core theme in my life for a long time.
But it just took me a while to fully realize that and, and understand how I wanted to apply that or align my life with that.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. And what I want a tragedy of this country that, cause you would've been a great teacher, right? And what a tragedy that we can't pay people enough. To get everybody in there who really wants to do it. I mean, that's a, that's a, that's a topic for another podcast. What did you wanna talk about today?
Ron Pratt: So yeah, I mean, I think along this same, you know, vein, I think just alignment was the topic I wanted to talk about. And just the importance of alignment and I think, you know, in our careers, but [00:09:00] our lives as well. I think there's a. A, a big gap, I think, in terms of who people are and how their careers and or lives are aligned with those things.
And I think there's a, there's a lack of awareness I think around that, and at least for me that that was a lack of awareness for a long time where I felt the misalignment, but I wasn't quite sure how to name it. And so that's something I wanted to, to come maybe discuss a bit more
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, I love it. I think, I think that's so juicy and so relatable. And also just from your retelling of it, I think you were a lot more aware of it than. You probably even thought you were, even though you said you didn't really have a way to name it, but it sounds like ev along the way, you're like, ah, this isn't, this isn't quite it.
Let me shift. Oh, this isn't quite it either. Let me shift and I suspect people can have their entire career and maybe hear that way far away, but never actually face that.
Ron Pratt: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: what do you think what do you think it takes to really listen to that [00:10:00] little voice of this is not quite right.
Ron Pratt: Yeah,
that's a great question. I mean, I think like looking back for me I think you're, you're spot on. That voice was always there and I felt it, but I just didn't have, you know, the language for it. But I, I think knowing what I know now, what I would say is that. Over time, I've learned that our feelings are they're messengers for us, right?
And so they tell us when something's off or when you know when something's going great or when something's not going great for us. And so I think that feeling that I had, that inner nagging was like an indicator that something wasn't quite right. You know, maybe that it was, you know, a, a need that was being unmet or, you know, but it was an invitation to explore a bit more deeply.
And I think so that was the first thing is just that being aware of that signal, right? When you start to feel something's off, trusting that, right? Because. Our feelings are messengers. And then I think the second thing I was missing was a framework. I didn't really have a great framework for, you know, let's say that back then I had listened to the [00:11:00] feeling, which I tried.
I didn't have a great framework for making sense of it. And so I think, you know, the framework of alignment is one that I think is, is very helpful for me and I think could be helpful for others as well. It's been helpful for a lot of my clients so far. And that's just around understanding that, hey, you know.
There's a lot of different ways that our career and or life's life can align. And so just being aware of that and getting curious around like, Hey, if I'm feeling something is a bit off, maybe checking in with, with a framework of some sort Can help you identify or drill down and understand like, what that might be.
So for me, one of the ones that I've, I've come up with is just or I've learned over time. I shouldn't say I didn't, I didn't create it myself, but it's just, you know, being aware that, hey, a lot of times when it comes to career, there's a few different areas that can be misaligned. I think values is a big one, right?
And oftentimes the way that shows up is if your work. Feels meaning does not feel meaningful, or you're struggling to find a sense of purpose in your work, you know, that can indicate that there's a misalignment in your values. I [00:12:00] think another one is, is how motivated you are or energized by the work that you're doing.
I think, you know, feeling like you're not energized or not motivated, could be, is usually a sign of misalignment with your motivators, your internal motivators, or your intrinsic motivators. I think for me, another big one was just. In certain roles, it was a lack of interest in the work itself. And so I think that was a bit more centered around like, hey, okay, this is an interest misalignment.
And then the last one, you know, there's a couple others, but the last big one that I tend to see pretty often is around. Just personality fit, right? Like maybe you're in the wrong culture or you're not, you know, in a organization or a role that allows you to work in the ways that bring the best of you out.
And so I think, you know, starting with understanding, okay, there's a few different types of misalignment. So if I'm feeling some type of way, maybe I can start there, use that as an assessment tool or a diagnostic tool, understand what it's telling me, and then kind of go from there. Looking back on my career, I think, or my life, those are the two things I think were [00:13:00] missing was just that understanding of what the feeling was telling me deeply, and then like a framework of sorts to make sense of it.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, I wish I had talked to you 20 years ago. I remember I was in a, I spent some time in a, in a finance role or in a whole, you know, production finance field. And the whole time I was like, this isn't quite it, but. So there must be something wrong with me. Right? I, I think that's where people can go with it.
Oh, if I just work on myself or get better at it, like by the time I got better at it, I felt more okay about being in that job. But I was, people, people who are not me outside of me would always say like, why are you in this role? Like, like, yeah, you can do it, but the rest of you is not what this role is.
And I would be like, yeah, whatever. Yeah. But I, that would've been really helpful to be able to look at it that way when you, when you told me this is what you wanted to talk about and that using the values [00:14:00] framework I had a client I was working with and we were doing a values exercise and his first question was, was this work values or personal values?
And I was like, oh, that's very interesting. Let's do both. And so he did both and then found out there was zero overlap. Between the job values and the personal values, and that was such an aha moment of, oh, can I have some overlap in my values with the work that I'm doing? So now that's the work we're doing of what might that look like and what kind of possibilities are created if you allow the possibility that you can have your personal values also in your job.
Ron Pratt: Yeah, I mean, I, I think that's a, what you're describing, I think there's probably a lot of people out there that are feeling that same or dealing with that and just, you know, haven't been able to name that so far. But, you know, I think that comes up a lot because we're. You know, we live in a society where we aren't really taught to pursue [00:15:00] alignment in our careers, right?
We're taught to pursue prestige or salaries or you know, certain type security, certain titles, et cetera. Yeah. Especially right now. Right? And there's nothing wrong with those things, but I, I think there's, if, if there's a values misalignment or you know, our value, our core values are not being met, then.
That. I think that's where that sense of emptiness kind of comes from because you don't having work that's not aligned with who you are and your core values tends to leave you feeling like, Hey, this is not, I don't see the meaning. I'm able to find, unable to find meaning or purpose in my work. And so I think and the work that I do with clients values as.
Where we usually start, it's like getting really, really clear on what your values are and then understand, because everything else kind of stems from there. And usually values are the thing that we use to make decisions. Right. And if, for example, if a client's choosing between two particular. Career paths, right?
We'll use values as kind of the criteria to assess the two or to [00:16:00] decide between the two, just because values tends to drive everything else pretty significantly. But yeah, I think that values misalignment is one that I is, is probably present in, most, if not all, the clients that I've, I've dealt with or that I've I've been had the pleasure of working with.
And I suspect that there's a lot more there's many, many more people out there
that. Are suffering from something similar.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, I think that's a big one. And also it comes to mind like, remember, do what you love and the money will follow. Oh, and then we had a generation of, oh, that's not true. That's, that's not always true. So then how do you reconcile. How do you pull it apart so it's not like, oh, do you love the money will follow?
Well, I love to watercolor paint that for, I know for sure, for me that would not help me to earn a living and put a roof over my head. So how do you look at that kind of differently?
Ron Pratt: Yeah. So I, I think
a great question and I tend to look at it. I tend to break down a few categories [00:17:00] and look at alignment across those categories. So there's values. I look at motivators, I look at interests, and I look at, you know, kind of personality fit. And I, I think like, like what you're describing, I think around, oh, I like to, to paint that, that might fall a bit more into an interest category versus a core value, potentially, depending on, you know, the person.
So, but I think, the way that I, I tend to think about it is values is kind of the, and motivators are the, are the driver, right? So they kind of tell you what you'll find meaningful and what work will get you out of bed every day. Like what activities will get you out of bed and motivated and energized.
And then I think I look at interest as like the things that you point that energy towards. And so I, I find meaning in this work or you know, in certain types of work based on my values, I'm motivated in certain types of work based on my motivators and my intrinsic motivators. And then I look at my interest to understand where I want to direct that energy towards.
Right? And then and then I tend to look at personality because that kind of gives us a bit of a sense of like, okay now that I [00:18:00] know where I want to, you know, direct my energy and my sense of meaning, this is the context that I need to do that within, in order to, for the best version of myself to show up.
Julie Harris Oliver: Like, do you have
personality for sales? I.
Ron Pratt: right. Yeah. Right. You may, you may, you may or may not. So yeah, like personality for sales or it's like, Hey, do you need to be in a more of a collaborative culture or are you in kind of more of a, you know, more of an i banking or consulting type culture? Culture? Neither is right or wrong, but it's important to know that about yourself because a misalignment there, you know, will likely end up in you not showing up as the best version of yourself and potentially being miserable.
Right. And so I tend to look at it with my clients around those four dimensions, that that's where I tend to start off. And when we look for alignment, we tend to think about it like that. And there's a couple other dimensions, I think like strengths is another one, but I tend to, that tends to kind of, least in the work that I do with clients, tends to kind of work itself out when we look at the other assessments around value, interest, motivators, and personality.
Julie Harris Oliver: Mm-hmm. [00:19:00] How do you use this framework? I'm just thinking like in right now, when everyone's getting laid off and if you have a job, you are, you're not about to quit it, to go find something that feels better. So there's, how do you transition while you're still in a job or start thinking about it, but also, I need to get a job by the end of next week, or I'm not gonna be able to feed my family.
I can't think about any of this stuff. And that's a luxury I will, I will do once I have my three month savings in the bank. Like how do you kind of think about it in this time?
Ron Pratt: Yeah. I mean, you're right. Like these are really difficult and challenging times, and so, you're right. I mean, I think that everybody's not gonna be able to make that kind of a shift or pivot right away, right. Depending on their individual circumstances. And so the way that I, I think about it is, you know, if a person is. In the, you know, in need of making a move today, and they don't have the, the time or the financial luxury to, put together a, a longer term plan. Then [00:20:00] I think, you know, I look at it in, in two phases. The, the short term is just getting a job and, and doing what you need to do in order to kind of satisfy your needs in the short term.
And I think. To the extent that you can start to align that short term role or, or, or move with your values and your interest and, and motivators. Great. You know, if you could, to the extent that you can align them, great, but, you know, if you can't, because that's not always gonna be possible that that's fine.
I think you, you know, essentially, quote unquote stop the bleeding, right? And then you start to look at the longer term. Around, like, okay, we got something in the short term. And so like, you know, the, the anxiety that I've been feeling or the fear or like the, you know, the need to be able to put food on the table and provide for my family.
I've, I've gotten that taken care of and now I wanna, now that I've kind of gotten things steady, I'm starting to look at the longer term and, you know, starting to look at what that might look like in terms of moving toward a work that's a bit more aligned.
Julie Harris Oliver: Could we dig deeper into your [00:21:00] framework? Like we talked about values, talk about motivators.
Ron Pratt: Yeah. So, our motivators are, are things that, you know, intrinsically energize us. And so I'm trying to think of a few that might let's say that maybe you're motivated by affiliation, meaning you're motivated and energized by being, you know, a part of a group or a community or an organization that.
You know, matches your values or your interest. Exactly. You know, for example, or maybe it's around maybe you're motivated or motivated by altruism, and so you want to do work that's service oriented. I'm trying to think of another good one. Financial security is often a motivator or pretty strong motivator for people.
But you know, the, these are things that when they're present in a role, they tend to give you the energy. That you need in order to do, and, you know, to show up every day and perform the role to the best of your abilities. And I think over the, the long term, when you think about a career, I think your motivators are the things that give you that [00:22:00] sustainable en energy to be able to, you know, kind stay with it long term.
It's gonna energize you to, you know, to do, you know, to, to learn and to grow and to develop in the role, right? So it's, it's kind of your competitive advantage because it gives you the energy. To continue to push through the highs and the lows, right? Because a lot of people, you know, you can fake it for a while potentially, depending on the role you are,
are in, a lot of people can, and how you're wired, right?
Depending how you're wired, you might be able to compartmentalize, but over time it does cost you, and I think it, you know, it might cost you with like, you know, maybe it puts you in a bad mood, right? And so you're spending all this energy to, you know, to do what's required at work. So then when you get home, you're.
You know, you're not the most pleasant to be around for your spouse or for your kids. Right. Or it might take
Julie Harris Oliver: Then your life also sucks, not just your job
Ron Pratt: exactly. Yeah, exactly. It takes it role, it takes its toll in different ways. But I, I think when you are aligned with from a motivator standpoint, then [00:23:00] that tends to be quite the competitive, competitive advantage because it does allow you, it's kinda like that. It's what you need to sustain yourself over the long run. And so it's a thing that gets you out of bed in the morning and say, okay, I'm energized to go do this. And it's, it's slightly different than interest, but it, they're relatively, they're related, but they are somewhat different.
Like I'm
how I look at motivators.
Julie Harris Oliver: I'm, I'm thinking about it as motivator is I, I want to help people. I wanna help make other people's jobs easier. Might be a motivator, not typically an interest, but tell me how the interest would be different.
Ron Pratt: Yeah, so I think the motivators are the things that like energize you and your interests. I think I, the way I would think about those are, it's more like the, the content or the topics that you're actually interested in. And these are the things I think when you're interested in something.
That tends to align pretty closely with like a state of flow. [00:24:00] And so when you're interested in a topic and you get, you know, you can be, you know, you fully immerse yourself and you can, you know, you enter a state of flow and next thing you know, you look up and you've been doing this thing that you're so interested in for four hours and you're like, where did the time go?
Right. It's not so much that it's energizing you as much as it, it's capturing your full attention.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah.
Ron Pratt: Right? And it's allowing you to be fully present in that moment because you're interested. And so, like, engulfed in the topic or the. You know,
Julie Harris Oliver: Okay. I have an example and then I'm gonna ask you for a bunch of examples on these. I had a client once who was in my, my former role that had production finance, which is.
Mm-hmm.
Hiring accountants and overseeing all the financials on film and television, but you could use that skill in any industry, right?
Overseeing accounting. And we went through this exercise of what are all the things that matter for you in this job and what are all the skills and. Yeah. And then the question I asked was, okay, but what if this had nothing to do with film and television and you were manufacturing something? And the answer was, God [00:25:00] no.
I'm not gonna do that. I was like, okay, now we have information about what, what direction we need to go in. 'cause it was such a clear, I am not interested in anything involving accounting in any other industry. 'cause I like, okay, then you can focus on where you wanna go.
Ron Pratt: Yep. Yep.
Julie Harris Oliver: Tell me some stories.
Ron Pratt: Yeah. Okay. So I had a client that I was working with recently that was really, really you know, was in a, in a role that was a relat. It had some alignment, but then there were a few areas that were misaligned, mostly around personality and then around I guess motivators would be the second piece.
Right? And so that's one of the things that we had uncovered through our work together is because the client had mentioned just, you know, she didn't really feel all that energized, you know, getting out of bed every day and kind of forcing herself to do the activities that she was doing. What were difficult for her because she just wasn't motivated by that type of work.
And then the environment that she was doing the work in was difficult for her. Right. She was a part of. Company culture that was [00:26:00] very different than how she was wired and what her personality suggests that, you know, would be a good fit for her. And so by coming up with identifying, you know, the, what was driving those feelings of misalignment or like that feeling of rest, restlessness that she felt we were then able to kind of craft a strategy for her to make a pivot. Towards work that would be a bit more energizing and that would be a better fit for her personality. And so what we started to look at was like, okay, she, this particular person happened to be pretty motivated by altruism, I guess, you know, like helping service oriented work. And they also tended to be very in terms of personality that they needed a culture that was a bit more.
Flexible, a bit more autonomous but also very, you know, less formal, a bit more collaborative. And so taking those two pieces, we were able to understand, okay, you know, when we're looking for a new role, we need to find you one that is going to allow you to center the work around you know, service, right?
So being able to [00:27:00] help people, and for her specifically, it was around human, human development. And so we need to find a role that's going to allow you to. You know, work in that human development space where you can either coach or mentor or develop others. And you need to be able to do so in a context that is a, you know, a company culture that's a bit more collaborative, but also, you know, gives you, she needed clear direction, but the flexibility and the autonomy to achieve those broader objectives, however she saw fit.
And so in that example, we were able to kind of identify some pretty, some, some good organizations that were a good fit. And then we were able to also. Use that information to kind of help her craft her strategy for how she would present herself and market herself. So how she would you know, set up her cover letter, how she would what specifically she would highlight and speak to in her resume.
Even her networking strategy, right? Because what we need to, one that felt a bit more authentic and relational versus transactional for her, right? And so. Given that we needed to, to be very intentional about the ways that we did the, you know, did the networking and reached [00:28:00] out to others. And so, you know, I think just that clarity it did a few things for her.
The first thing it did was it kind of helped to ease some of the initial tension that she had. 'Cause you know, she came in feeling restless and she was like, I'm not sure what to do with this. And she didn't quite. Under, she didn't quite know how to like frame, I should say, frame the, what she was feeling.
But I think using this framework we were able to identify, kind of narrow in and hone in on what, what was, what specifically was driving the misalignment. And then find roles that were able, that avoided the things that were misaligned previously and actually would play to, to, it would become an advantage for her.
Right. So moving into. Roles that motivated her intrinsically and provided the type of culture and, and working context that would bring out the best version of herself, you know, we were able to kind of come up with a pretty good strategy that left her feeling pretty, pretty good about the work that she was going to move into.
Julie Harris Oliver: I love it's so simple, [00:29:00] but so informative like the. The framework can help diagnose your current situation, but then also informs finding your new role. And I loved how you talk about also how you, what kind of job you look for, how you present yourself, how you talk about it, how you write about yourself in your resume, how it informs all of that so that you have a much better chance going forward of getting something that feels right to you.
Ron Pratt: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: Question.
Ron Pratt: Yes.
Julie Harris Oliver: Do you need to have all of these aligned in order to feel aligned or are any of them more important than others?
Ron Pratt: Yeah. So, you don't need to have 'em all. mean, I think in an ideal world, if you can get them all as aligned as possible, like I think the more. The more you can do that, I think the better you'll feel. But every, everybody's a little different, and so it just depends on your tolerance, right? So for example, some people have a higher tolerance for doing work that is not as aligned on the interest spectrum than others.
Right? But I think [00:30:00] in terms of the importance, how I would look at 'em is, I think the values and the motivators are the two most important, right? Because they, they tell you what's meaningful and they tell you. What's gonna get you outta bed and actually energize you and give you that like, sustained energy to do the work.
I think interests and personality are, are equally important or, you know, also important. But I think values and motivators are the two that I tend to start with because I think they tend to determine the, you know, the long, the sustainability I should say of, of work over the long run.
Julie Harris Oliver: Okay, so lemme make sure I have these. Values, motivators, interests, personality. Did I miss anything?
Ron Pratt: I mean there's strengths, but that's not part of the my framework. 'cause it tends to kinda come out on its own, usually through the other assessments we do,
Julie Harris Oliver: I, I love it.
Ron Pratt: captured it well.
Julie Harris Oliver: Is there anything I should, should have asked you that I didn't ask you about this?
Ron Pratt: I did want to touch on something you mentioned earlier, which was around I think. [00:31:00] One of the things you mentioned earlier is that people often will, when they are in a role and it's a mis, it's not a good fit for them, they'll tend to internalize it as being about them or being some kind of their, a personal failure.
And I've seen that a lot and I, I, it resonates with me 'cause I've definitely felt that way myself when I was in misaligned roles. But the, the one thing that I've noticed in doing this work is that, you know, it's very rarely. About the person, right? It's just simply a misalignment. It's just you're in the wrong environment or you know, you're not, you're doing work essentially that goes against how you're naturally wired.
And that's not in like a failure on your part or on the organization's part. It's just simply a misalignment. And so I think that's probably one of the things that I, I talk about with my clients a lot is. Being able to kind of shift this from being about them to it being about the fit or about the alignment, because I think, you know, people can be pretty hard on themselves [00:32:00] and, and when you are making it about yourself, it can actually make it di more difficult in the future to move into different roles because now you're, not only are you battling the misalignment, but you're also battling like your own internal.
Like your inner critic, right? And so that's something that I think shouldn't be understated. It's like, hey, this misalignment doesn't mean there's something wrong with you. It just means there's something wrong with the fit or the alignment. And that's a very different thing than you know, something you know, being wrong with you.
Julie Harris Oliver: that's huge. That's huge. To be able to put that into context and take it out of it's not, it's not necessarily about you. Also, you don't have to villainize the place where you are. 'cause they also may not be terrible. I mean, they may be terrible, but that they may not be terrible. You know what I mean?
They may not be the villain,
Ron Pratt: Exactly.
Julie Harris Oliver: and so you don't have to make the story where they're the villain and you're the victim and what is going on here. When really no harm, no foul. It's misalignment. Let's free [00:33:00] everybody to move on.
Ron Pratt: Exactly. And, and you know, the sooner you can recognize and act on that, I think the sooner you can. Remove yourself from a misaligned situation and intentionally pursue a situation where you are aligned and, and honestly, like, you know, I, I deal with this in, in the career context, but I think it, the more I, I kind of look at this framework and just think about it in the broader context of life.
I think it applies in a lot of areas, not just career.
Julie Harris Oliver: say More.
Ron Pratt: I think when it comes to choosing a partner, right? I think alignment is really, really big. And I think people, we aren't taught typically as a society to, to look for those, or at least to, you know, to look for values alignment per se.
Hmm.
But I think that contributes to a lot of. Friction that you see in relationships, not just marriage, but like, you know, any kind of relationship. Right. I think, you know, an alignment in terms of even coming down to where you live, right? I mean, I think you can be aligned with
Julie Harris Oliver: living this
Ron Pratt: or
Julie Harris Oliver: viscerally right now.
Ron Pratt: know, like, yeah, [00:34:00] you could be aligned with like a, like a societal or a. You know, societal values or not aligned with societal values. And you'll feel that misalignment, much like you'll feel it when you're misaligned in your relationships or you're misaligning your career. So, the more that I, you know, become aware of alignment and the impacts it has on us and how it shows up internally or just, you know, within us.
In terms of feelings or sensations that we might have, right? Like a pit in our stomach or you know, like a frog in our throat as they say. think these things are, or imposter syndrome, right?
Julie Harris Oliver: might not be you.
Ron Pratt: Might not be you. Exactly. So,
Julie Harris Oliver: it probably is not you. Let me say that,
Ron Pratt: yeah. Yeah. I think most of the time it's, it's, yeah. It's not
you, it's, it's the, you're just in the wrong environment.
Right.
Julie Harris Oliver: and I'm thinking about this also from the perspective of if you're a leader and you have someone who is, is just not the right role for them, like you can, you can have a very candid conversation about that in a way that is not blaming and does not you suck. Is. You can put a [00:35:00] very different perspective on this.
Ron Pratt: Yeah. Yeah. No, I absolutely, and I, I think that, you know, understanding that. You know, the role that alignment or misalignment plays can, could actually allow a person to be a lot more empathetic towards others, right? I mean, sometimes to your point, oftentimes if there's a misalignment, somebody gets villainized.
You know, usually it's both parties are villainizing the other party, right? But in reality that that may not be the case. And so, I think that just being aware of the alignment, I think, and just like the role that it plays, I think gives us a framework from which to find the right fit and ensure that we are putting ourselves in the positions to, you know, for the best version of ourselves to come out.
Like I said, whether that's career, relationships, where you live
et cetera.
Julie Harris Oliver: All the things.
Ron Pratt: All the things. Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: Thank you, Ron. I'm learning a lot today. Where can people find you? [00:36:00] I
Ron Pratt: Yeah, you can find me on my website at www.thealteracollective.com.
Julie Harris Oliver: Spell?
Ron Pratt: Yeah. T-H-E-A-L-T-E-R-A-C-O-L-L-E-C-T-I-V e.com.
Julie Harris Oliver: Okay, and we'll link to it in the show notes.
And are you on LinkedIn as well?
Ron Pratt: Yeah, I am and you can find me at Ron Pratt Altera, all one word on
Julie Harris Oliver: Okay, cool, Ron. Thank you so much.
Ron Pratt: Yeah. Thank you for having me, Julie. I appreciate it and enjoyed spending the, this half hour chatting with you.
Me too. Okay, bye.
All right, bye-bye.
Julie Harris Oliver: This has been deep work out loud. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. I'd like to thank Ron Pratt for joining the podcast. If any of this resonates with you, please subscribe and leave review at all the podcast places. And if you'd like to work with me, you can find me at julieharrisoliver.com. And let me leave you with this.
How aligned are you [00:37:00] in your current job and what would it look like if you start to take a look at those different aspects? Your values, your motivations, your interests, and your personality. Think about it. Report back. Thanks for listening. See you next time.