EP 12 Humor at Work: Levity, Creativity, and the “Yes, And” Mindset with Connie Liu | Deep Work Out Loud
Julie Harris Oliver: Welcome to Deep Work Out Loud, the thinking that fuels our life, our work, and our leadership. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. This is the podcast where I sit with another professional coach and we do some work around a single concept, a piece of inspiration, a topic we've seen come up in our coaching, something we've been thinking about a lot, and if we're very lucky while we're talking about it, we might demonstrate what coaching might look and feel like. But we'll see how this goes. all an experiment. With any luck, we'll leave with something that you can apply and use in your work or your life, or both. And today I am here with Connie Liu. Connie is a two-time founder and executive coach. She currently runs Tandem, a coaching and mentorship platform for startup teams. In addition, she coaches, founders and leaders scaling their impact. She's recognized as Forbes 30 under 30 and has an MBA from Stanford and a mechanical engineering degree from MIT. passionate about empowering people to reach their highest goals, which is the through line [00:01:00] to all of her work. Her ideal day is spent laughing and making others laugh. Hi Connie.
Connie Liu: Hello. Thanks for having me.
Julie Harris Oliver: Thanks for coming. Now, before we dig in, what was your journey to becoming a coach?
Connie Liu: So my journey started by getting a coach. I got my first executive coach when I was preparing to leave the first company I started. So, for me, it was this moment of both, a lot of tactics and a lot of vulnerability of, there's a lot of emotional journey with leaving, but also just like things that needed to get done.
And , when I told my board president that I was ready to leave, he recommended I got a coach. I said, I don't know what a coach is, but I trust you, so I'll do that. And. Getting the coach who I still work with today, Amanda was one of the most life-changing things that could have happened. It really expanded how I thought about how effectiveness happens of she became this huge force in my life of the [00:02:00] one place where I felt like I could be a hundred percent honest, and I think I didn't even realize.
The other situations of whenever I need to present to the board or present to my team, or even like, share news with family, there's always some amount of curation of how I believe they need to receive the news. And coaching was the first place where I could be completely messy and not know the final answer yet, and not have the communications ready to go and be able to work it out together.
Julie Harris Oliver: So valuable. Okay, so what did you wanna dig into today?
Connie Liu: Yeah. The topic on my mind was humor, and
Julie Harris Oliver: love
Connie Liu: I'm very excited to dive into this with you. Humor, especially in the context of how it relates to work. I think one, when I was reflecting about this, I feel like there's always these two parts of myself, so I am very, very. I love working and I feel like work has always been a really big part of [00:03:00] how I believe a good life should be lived, of being able to do mission-driven, impactful things with your nine to five.
Daytime is one of the most valuable ways I think you can spend a life of thinking about what impact do I wanna leave on this world and what do I wanna do with these hours that I have on the other side of a life well lived? Everything I do in my free time is all about like pursuing laughter and being around people who make me belly laugh and fall on the floor laughing whether it's intentional or not.
And I always see this as like two different sides of myself. And a lot of coaching is about integration and being a full self. And I think that the, this felt so related to both coaching and existence and it was the exact topic I wanted to unpack with you.
Julie Harris Oliver: I love it because at first Brush you think. Is that appropriate at work? I know I, I'm the person in the room who's always cracking jokes about everything and [00:04:00] it took me a while to kinda hone that in a corporate environment 'cause it was not always welcome. So I am, I'm so curious, like, how are you, how are you thinking about that?
Connie Liu: Yeah. I think the ways that humor have come up already and the reason why it's kind of top of mind is, especially as a founder, a lot of the work that you're doing needs to be like the most important thing. So I feel like a lot of my day-to-day is thinking about, okay, how do I convince someone that coaching is the most important thing or the mission we're pursuing is the most important thing that.
When you're a single person in the world and always having to be in this mode of most important, I think humor is this beautiful counterbalance that eventually, probably like a year into starting my , second company, I decided to take up standup comedy because it was the one outlet where I could just think about something really mundane and really nothing like.
Almond milk versus whole milk or like, , [00:05:00] ordering Chinese food at a restaurant and like watching your white friends struggle with it. Like these, like very mundane, whatever situations that happened in your day to day and just like focus on that as the most important thing instead was this counterbalance that I ended up creating. To create more balance in my life. But then what I also found was in coaching, it would show up a lot as sometimes when we were focusing on like the most important next step they wanted to do in your career. The thing that alleviated the pressure was to add some humor into it. We would like, we would be focused so hard on what's the.
Right thing to do. And then sometimes one of the things I learned to do was, all right, let's actually throw away all the pressure of finding the correct thing. And let's just make funny suggestions. You're gonna go be a clown, you're gonna go be a professional dog walker. Like, it doesn't matter.
Let's add more levity. And then it actually made [00:06:00] people more creative, more able to. Be their best self when we were able to integrate a little more. And those are the two ways I've been exploring it so far.
Julie Harris Oliver: Talk a bit more about why it's so important.
Connie Liu: Humor,
Julie Harris Oliver: Mm-hmm.
Connie Liu: To me, humor is like this release valve. Both, like you're literally exhaling in order to laugh really hard. But also it's this release valve of like, maybe things don't matter that much. And I think that was really important to me in the work sense of the gravity and the weight.
Of feeling like every move could be do or die, and being able to let some humor in, let some of that, , release come in was. Really important to do. What I, I, one term I use in my coaching practice is being able to extend your emotional runway. And I think when you have a lot of pressure on yourself and you're always sprinting, [00:07:00] you are not gonna be able to run as fast or run as far.
But when you're able to have those release moments and have that like. Everything's important, but not really. Balance. I think you're just able to sustain the work you do much more.
Julie Harris Oliver: And what do you think makes it hard for people?
Connie Liu: Ooh. I mean, it feels, even for me who like values humor so much, it sometimes just feels illegal at work. Like I, if, if I'm doing like a pitch for funding, I don't want to add too many jokes into it or else they might not think I'm a serious founder. So I think there's this like dichotomy between seriousness and humor too.
I think for me, I'm very serious about work, but that doesn't mean I don't. Want to laugh about it, I don't wanna poke fun about it. But being able to resolve those two when they seem on opposite sides of the spectrum feels really hard even to me and is something I'm still working on.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, so how do you work on it?
Connie Liu: Hmm. Being able to.
[00:08:00] Find people where, who I work with, who I can like more safely be humorous around. I think by both tandem and a community I run. Coaching Corner has been great for that 'cause it's just. Communities of coaches, and I feel like coaches are already on the same page about your whole self, and there's going to be, a lot more honesty in those spaces.
So I think being able to have safe spaces to practice being able to be funny and your full self and not, , maintain the like. The complete, serious facade I think is important. Yep. The like robotic. I'm here to report to work and I'm here to do the, the right thing all the time. So I think having those spaces has been really helpful.
And the standup comedy, I feel like for me has been being able to flex those extremes of, if I spend more time just in that other extreme of, my only goal right now is to get a laugh out of someone and to craft a joke that gets that [00:09:00] laugh, then my hope is that it'll spring back the other way and be able to show up more in my work too.
Julie Harris Oliver: I think there's such a direct connection to, and you alluded to it earlier, the the being relaxed enough to laugh actually frees up your creativity and your ideas and your innovation because you're relaxed.
Connie Liu: Yeah, I resonate with that a lot and I feel like it, it's kind of a like. Homecoming circle of the work I did in between the mechanical engineering degree and the coaching work now was. , In design thinking, and I think a lot of design thinking is about how to stoke creativity for people and get people to come up with ideas that have never been done before.
A lot of that is about levity and creating Yes. And environments and being able to just pile on ideas even. If they are bad, you're just acknowledging that they're bad. And I think a lot of the best [00:10:00] comedians have to do that. A lot of the best founders have to do that, but it's giving permission that can happen.
Julie Harris Oliver: And then how do you create a space that's safe enough that you can throw out the terrible, ridiculous idea? That might be funny because you know, there's, there might be a kernel in there.
Connie Liu: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: the next great thing, but don't feel safe enough to throw out the nonsense,
Connie Liu: Yeah,
Julie Harris Oliver: there.
Connie Liu: I feel like it's finding those people who are, don't draw away from fun in comedy in that, I think part of it is like assessing the situation of is this going to be like it's a culture here very serious, and then I can. Uh, one standard deviation away, but I can't be like the full. I'm gonna do a standup set right now, person right now.
I feel like once you find those creative partners who you take a little bit more of a risk, a little bit more of a risk with them, and then you get to that really generative moment where you [00:11:00] can both just riff and yes, and each other on both ideas for company building or ideas for jokes. I think it's such a magical thing.
Julie Harris Oliver: Now I think everybody knows the rule of yes. And, but in case they don't, would you explain that?
Connie Liu: Yeah. Yes. And is borrowed from the world of improv and a lot of it is just accepting the gift that you're given whatever words come out of someone's mouth, and then being able to build on top of it, I think. We're very tuned to giving the no but answer a lot of the times and say why something won't work.
But having a yes and attitude is how oftentimes comedy and improv work where you get an idea and then you build on top of it and you build on top of it and then you see where it brings you. I think one thing I saw a lot of in design thinking is design thinking had. As I process had so much language of normalizing we're gonna have.
Yes. And thinking in this business sense. And I feel like freezing the [00:12:00] rules for a period of time makes it safe too for people to just practice it rather than like someone coming in hot and being very Yes. And without the structure of like we're trying a thing right now can sometimes feel very risky.
But when the norms and the language is set I think it can be really powerful for everyone to be more of a risk taker.
Julie Harris Oliver: So it's helpful to name it.
Connie Liu: Mm-hmm.
Julie Harris Oliver: I love I love the yes and as opposed to the no, but, 'cause I think in so many work places, it's who can come up with the, the holes that are gonna make that thing not work. Like, no, but is like the safest, smartest thing to do. Right. This reminds me of I'm, I'm gonna bring a lot of the parenting into this, but. I think it applies if people are parents. But I remember a friend of mine was very specific with her kids about saying yes. And, but it was in the form of, would you do the dishes? Yes. And let me clear the table. But just as training for how to be a lovely person in the world, you know,
Connie Liu: take on the [00:13:00] extra chore.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yes. Yes, I'd be happy to do that. And I will do this other thing as well. Maybe that's not a great example for what you're talking about, but I, I do think there's something to the Yes and
Connie Liu: Yeah. I feel like every situation I've seen it in, it can feel kind of stilting in the same way that like when we learn a five paragraph essay, it feels very structured and constrained.
Julie Harris Oliver: hmm.
Connie Liu: it feels very stilting when you're like, we're doing a yes and activity, and every idea needs to start with the words Yes.
And. I feel like once you practice it enough, then you can just adopt it as a mentality instead, which I feel like is when it really has its magic.
Julie Harris Oliver: Do you hear my dog barking his head off? Yeah. Yeah. Hold on one second. Sorry, I should have done that at the beginning.
Connie Liu: All good. Did you tell him you have an important podcast happening? He was like, I'm so sorry.
Julie Harris Oliver: We're on a podcast right now. Knock
Connie Liu: Oh, I didn't know.
Julie Harris Oliver: barks at absolutely everything. It makes us
Connie Liu: Oh.
Julie Harris Oliver: So if you have any dog training Yes. [00:14:00] And
Connie Liu: Just cats. They haven't learned how to bark yet.
Julie Harris Oliver: No. Well, the cat will scratch on the door. I was dealing with that before we got on here. Okay. Where were we? We were talking about yes and strategy. Okay. other strategies might you employ to create kind of a light, humorous atmosphere work?
Connie Liu: Yeah. . I'll say like easiest, lowest hanging fruit is just starting the call off less seriously. I feel like that's your like, best time to set the stage of throwing in a little humor, making a little joke about your weekend, just lightens the mood a bit in a way that you have now a tone that now they know what kind of person you are or like what tone of meeting this is that you're.
You can take a few jokes, you can, , you can be a little more lighthearted. And I think because I've always been one who likes leaning into the more lightheartedness, I [00:15:00] also find that people oftentimes open up a lot more easily too when they see you model that. Lightheartedness, they're able to know that this is a safe place to not only like be a little silly, but also be able to share a little more deeply.
And I feel felt that a lot in my coaching of just how I set the stage. When we start the call, it's not like incomplete silence. We always talk a little bit. We, we warm, we warm it up with a little bit of, uh. What's what's been happening, what's on their mind in a more lighthearted way before we dive deeper.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, I think it'd be so helpful 'cause it, it can feel so fraught otherwise, especially if you're dealing into like things or painful things or whatever the things are,
Connie Liu: Mm-hmm.
Julie Harris Oliver: when really the big picture, humanity is ridiculous.
Connie Liu: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: And we can, we can have some laughs along the way.
Connie Liu: Exactly. I think especially right now when everything feels very high gravity and is like being able to have those lighthearted [00:16:00] moments with other humans is very helpful.
Julie Harris Oliver: If you were talking to an executive who might think this is a good idea, but it may not come particularly natural to them, how would you advise them on getting started?
Connie Liu: Hmm. Are they a funny person? Already?
Julie Harris Oliver: What if they aren't?
Connie Liu: Gotta teach 'em funny. Uh,
Julie Harris Oliver: Can, can you teach that? Wait. Okay. While you think about it, I'm gonna tell you this story about how you can teach
Connie Liu: okay.
Julie Harris Oliver: which again, back to parenting, my daughter recently, who's 24, came back to me and said you know, you really taught us comedy and we're really grateful for it at this point.
Because when my kids were little, and they would tell a joke and it would land, and we'd all laugh. It was, I was very encouraging. But then the third time they would say that joke, I would say, Nope. Comedy rule of three. That's the last time. Like you nailed it. That joke was so funny. It's the last time you can say it 'cause it's not gonna be funny.
The fourth time. And honestly, I was probably doing it like, please don't say that joke, [00:17:00] like please. But I was coaching it in these are the rules of comedy that you need to know. 'cause obviously you're all gonna be comedians. And so my daughter being an adult now and being like, we're actually grateful that, that we learned the rules of comedy as we went.
So that really cracked me up. It's a thing I accidentally did, but I'm quite proud of it
Connie Liu: I need to teach that more. When I have kids, that will be the first lesson they learn.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yes. And, and the
Connie Liu: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: three
Connie Liu: Yes. And chores edition and, and the rule of three. How do you teach them to be funny to begin with or they, they just naturally kind of picked it up.
Julie Harris Oliver: They, they were just funny outta the
Connie Liu: It's gotta be the parents.
Julie Harris Oliver: I spoke to them in sarcasm and jokes since birth, even though I knew they couldn't understand me, but by the time could, like, they got it and they were funny.
Connie Liu: Yeah,
Julie Harris Oliver: controversial. Position to take, but I stand by it.
Connie Liu: I mean, I think that's how I learned comedy. Like I credit my older brother so much, he was so sarcastic to [00:18:00] me at. A young age, and then I just picked up like, oh wait, like first it hurt and then it's funny. And once I learned what sarcasm was, and I feel like being able to have that sort of upbringing where you like learn that like I.
A good prank, really funny and becomes like a, a growth moment later on. And a fun story you can tell, like honestly, a lot of my, uh, standup comedy jokes now can all be ones of like my brother pulling pranks on me, and then I, uh, grew from it,
Julie Harris Oliver: Amazing. Okay. Back to
Connie Liu: the execs.
Julie Harris Oliver: an executive who was not particularly funny, but wants to incorporate some humor, where do they begin?
Connie Liu: I think,
I think the everyday part is a helpful start of you just have free reign on how you start a call or how you start a meeting. So. I think that's like the easiest place to start incorporating a little [00:19:00] bit of personality. I've met very like biting, sarcastic people who they just like don't bring that part into work.
I've met more of the like, slapstick people, but even showing like a little bit into the zone that you naturally gravitate to, I feel like in just like how you talk about your day. Then I think, I'd say being able to,
I feel like the two like angles I think about work in is there's like the reporting type of things, and then there's the creating type of things. I feel like in the creating type of work, it's a lot more. Ripe for being able to bring in lightheartedness creativity. That yes and energy like yes and I think is a very good tactic where even if you're not funny it's just introducing a way for people to build up on each other.
So. I feel like in that like creating zone, there's a lot of opportunity in the [00:20:00] reporting. I would say it's a little more sensitive of the situation if you're not able to read a situation well already. I wouldn't recommend that to be a time to bring in comedy. I,
Julie Harris Oliver: Don't do it in your board
Connie Liu: yeah, exactly. Especially if they're not great financials.
If they're good ones, you can do whatever you want.
Julie Harris Oliver: So, where else should we go with this? Incorporating humor into work?
Connie Liu: I had love to hear about how you found that balance. It sounds like humor is a really big part of your life too, and being able to marry those two worlds is still a puzzle. I'm trying to solve anything you've learned along the way.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yes. It's, it's funny because depending on the role I was in. Whether or not it was welcome, like when I was in a finance role, I had to be much more careful about it. But I would figure out, I would figure out the timing would work in situations, but unfortunately, you only learn that the hard way by experimenting.
Connie Liu: [00:21:00] Very fair. Same with standup. The jokes you think will land never, never do.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, it's a scary, scary place. But then my next role, I was in sales where it was much easier to bring levity in, especially if you're entertaining clients or you're meeting with clients and you want them to be comfortable and to like you, and you know, all the, all the things. I remember there were times when, you know, I had five lunches and three dinners booked in a week, and I would on Sunday think like, okay, what's my amusing anecdote of the week? And I would pull that thing out at every meal I had refining it, boy by Friday. Boy, can I nail that story and get a laugh? But I, I always had something in my pocket of something to break the ice, something to make people comfortable, something to get a laugh. And it was usually something super mundane, you know, or something that had happened at home that, that I could turn into a funny story
Connie Liu: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: for people.
Connie Liu: Have you ever done any standup? It sounds like you have all the jokes workshop throughout every week of work.
Julie Harris Oliver: Absolutely [00:22:00] not. I would find that so terrifying to actually do standup.
Connie Liu: Tell me why
Julie Harris Oliver: Well it's funny because I was actually an acting major at tis. I, like, I have all that training, but anything on the improv side. terrifying. I can't explain it. I don't know.
Connie Liu: I get it though. I do feel like.
Julie Harris Oliver: to do standup once, but she didn't go for it.
Connie Liu: Some of the bravest people I know are like, I would never do standup,
Julie Harris Oliver: never,
Connie Liu: it.
Julie Harris Oliver: me to sing. Don't ask me to do improper standup. No, how did you start doing it?
Connie Liu: I dare from a friend. And I got, we, we both had New Year's resolutions. Mine was during standup, hers was to sing. And then like December 15th, I was like, all right, I guess I gotta do it. I went up, I bombed completely. It was, i'll, I'll give myself a little credit. It was technically a music venue that I was doing standup at, and.
The person [00:23:00] before me was singing like a punk rock song about killer whales, so I wasn't set up for success with a great opener, and a lot of people in there had like the dark emo look to them. I was like, all right, I'm gonna tell some jokes about cats. But I like literally my worst nightmare happened of bombing. And then I was like , I felt like a phoenix after. I was like, I can do anything. I survived my worst nightmare. And then I was hooked and.
Julie Harris Oliver: It only goes up from
Connie Liu: Yeah, exactly. And it has only gone up.
Julie Harris Oliver: so you kept doing it.
Connie Liu: Yeah. I try to do once a month, some open mic in San Francisco. I did a little bit of I was doing travel for work earlier this year and then took it as a.
Excuse to do comedy in other cities too, especially New York. That was like very high up on my list of, [00:24:00] gotta do New York and then I can call myself a national comedian nationally touring. Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: What venue did you do in New York?
Connie Liu: It was this place in Bushwick called The Tiny Cupboard. It was just like a cute little open mic out there.
Julie Harris Oliver: And what kind of material do you do?
Connie Liu: Uh. The best like analog is if you know, like Nate Bargatze and Mike Birbiglia who do like kind of the day-to-day story type of comedy. I really like that type of like story based arc of something that happened that otherwise would be a forgotten blip in your life. That's my favorite category of comedy.
Julie Harris Oliver: I love it. What did I not ask you that I should have asked you?
Connie Liu: Ooh. Um. I actually had a lingering question that I wanted to ask you. And
Julie Harris Oliver: But no, I had a question to ask you.
Connie Liu: no, I had, um, the lingering question was I feel like it. I, I wonder if you deal with this, [00:25:00] and I think when talking to friends, it seems like it's happened more to women than men where you feel like when people meet the work side of you versus the social side of you, they're like, whoa, I didn't know you were like that.
Have you experienced that? Has that changed over your life? I feel like I'm trying to marry the two, but they're still two different Connie.
Julie Harris Oliver: You know, it's so funny 'cause I was gonna ask you that when you were talking about like doing a pitch for funding telling a joke to maybe put people more at ease in a room. But I also wonder, as a woman, is there danger of not being taken
Connie Liu: Mm-hmm.
Julie Harris Oliver: if you're in that position and you're kind of funny.
Connie Liu: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: there can be some risk.
Connie Liu: I feel like there is, and, but some of it is, uh, assumed risk and then some of it might be real risk. So when you have that blend, it's just like dangerous at a high stake moment to take the risk.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, I gotta say that, that's probably a time where I would be nervous and [00:26:00] I would be saying funny things because I was nervous. Which may not land as well. 'cause I don't think your jokes are ever quite as good when you're nervous than when you just kinda
Connie Liu: Riffing.
Julie Harris Oliver: a zinger and it
Connie Liu: Mm-hmm.
Julie Harris Oliver: What was the original question?
Connie Liu: Ah have you had that experience where friends or colleagues meet the other version of Julie are like, who's that? And has that changed over time?
Julie Harris Oliver: I'm thinking back over my work life and I think when that was the most jarring for people was when I was in that finance role because I think I would crack jokes in that situation you know, be funny in that situation, which made people go. Wait a minute, wait, are you, are you in this role? That's really what I got of the time,
Connie Liu: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: That it just seemed like not right with the role, even though I think it was right for who I was, who I was wasn't right for the role I was in, and people noticed that and would comment about it. was once in an auditing role. And I was out on [00:27:00] an audit. It was very serious and I was with, it was a co-production, and so I was with the head of auditing of the other company and we were having a dinner, and I was like, carrying on with the accountants or whatever, and, and she stopped. She just said to me, I, I think you'd be better in sales. I don't think she meant it as a compliment. Turns out. Turns out she was completely right.
Connie Liu: She unleashed you.
Julie Harris Oliver: I was like, wait, whatcha trying to say? Are you like, I'm not a great auditor? Like, what? Like this is hard. What are you talking about? But I mean, yeah, I had more of that experience.
Connie Liu: But that, I do think of auditing as a very, like you gotta fit in the rules. And when jokes are so much like no rules.
Julie Harris Oliver: Sort of visor. Sort of,
Connie Liu: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: yeah. And in fact, I, this is so stupid, so embarrassing. But, so [00:28:00] was such a, that kind of job and you know, we turn in our audit reports and in those days back. Before the turn of the century, it was all paper and tape and all the things. Right. We'd cut out the thing and tape it on the paper and the, and I was always like cutting my paper into shapes.
Like I was doing arts and crafts in
Connie Liu: It's very funny.
Julie Harris Oliver: I mean, there were, there were signs.
Connie Liu: That's too funny. You've got like the middle school doodle down the margin.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. I was like cutting the paper into shapes and like I. It took me a long time to figure out who I was and what kind of job I should have. Let me just say
Connie Liu: But you arrived.
Julie Harris Oliver: I think so.
Connie Liu: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: How is it going for you? That's a very serious bio I read.
Connie Liu: It's a very serious bio. Yeah. It's a work in progress. I think being. I think the main like, uh, tension I feel is, especially as a founder, how serious everything needs to be by definition of the job. [00:29:00] By definition of the job you are building the most important thing in the world, and you need to be saying that at all times.
And then in. Comedy is like, or the comedy I choose to do, it's very, I'm gonna choose the most mundane thing that should probably just be a blip in your life, but I'm gonna like spend hours crafting a joke around it. So I think there's still that tension. But I think the other thing that I did learn along the way is I do feel like some of the funniest people I ever met were in engineering school.
I feel like there is like definitely a lot of. Relation between like very logical people and people who can see good patterns and incredibly funny people. So luckily, because at MIT was like where I got to be the funniest, I don't feel too scared to show up to that in very. Smart situations. Because now I have this association with people in spaces that like [00:30:00] typically are from the outside looking in, seen as very serious being places where I can like, be goofy and as long as I'm as long as they're like picking up what I'm putting down.
Like we, we can really go places.
Julie Harris Oliver: Well, I think it's true that really funny people are also really smart.
Going back to, going back to how, as a founder, you have to be making the most important thing all the time. I think it's also important to keep actual perspective of life. I remember, I will never forget this, this was 25 years ago. I was in a job, was very high stress.
It was making television shows I, this is my finance job and I'm talking to a friend of mine who was in medicine. And I was so stressed out. And she's like, what happens if you make a mistake? And I was like, oh, people will be mad. It'll be expensive. People will yell. It'll be terrible. And she goes, you know what happens if I make a mistake, somebody dies. like, get it together like this. I, from that point forward, I was like,
Connie Liu: We're good.
Julie Harris Oliver: we're just making TV [00:31:00] here. Like, okay. It's okay. Everybody take a breath.
Connie Liu: Have you watched the show, the studio?
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah.
Connie Liu: They, I think it was like episode six or something was like room full of doctors and then the main guy being like, but I gotta go call. The thing about the poop scene,
Julie Harris Oliver: yeah. It's so
Connie Liu: it's so serious.
Julie Harris Oliver: it's really
Connie Liu: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: The, the, my biggest takeaway that is Katherine Hahn, like we're still saying that's a worst case scenario.
Connie Liu: All her outfits in that show. I was like,
uh,
just click by. I'll take 'em all.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yes, exactly. All of them. Okay, we digress. What should our takeaway be from our session here?
Connie Liu: Yeah. Keep doing the work to bring more humor into the workplace. I think there is so much that. We can both like be able to work better together when we're able to be that full self. But also I feel like humor just really integrates creativity in a way that I don't think [00:32:00] any other like.
Way of being can. I think there's so much obsession with like efficiency and and drama in work of just like what you're saying, like making tv. It's still the most important thing and we apply this drama and this overwhelm that ends up making us bring, go into. Like go into our, shell be kind of, let's do things, how things we know that are gonna work rather than let's do things that are more creative.
And I think being able to like both stretch in the comedic sense in your social life and be able to bring a little bit more of that yes and energy into work can both have. So much value to just like your life being more sustainable, your work being better being able to bring the best ideas and self to all parts of your life.
Julie Harris Oliver: Amen. I was gonna say a button on that, but I think you nailed it, so I don't need to, I don't need to punch that up.
Connie Liu: Okay,
Julie Harris Oliver:: Connie Liu, thank you so much for doing this
Connie Liu: This [00:33:00] is so much fun. Thanks for guiding the conversation.
Julie Harris Oliver: Please tell us when you have a gig everyone will come. All 5 million people.
Connie Liu: Okay, great. Look out for the San Francisco open mic scene. I'll be around.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yes. Okay.
This has been deep work out loud. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. I'd like to thank Connie Liu for joining the podcast. If any of this resonates with you, please subscribe and leave a review at all the podcast places. And if you'd like to work with me, you can find me at julieharrisoliver.com. And let me leave you with this.
What might it look like for you to try to add some levity to your day? What if you just tried Yes. And at work, or if you're leading a meeting, say, this meeting, it's an innovation meeting we're gonna, we're gonna use, yes. And what would that look like for you? Go try some things. Report back. Thanks for listening.
See you next time.