EP 21: The First Work of Leadership: Wellbeing as a Foundation for Leading in Complexity with Dr. Michael Hein | Deep Work Out Loud

Julie Harris Oliver: ​Welcome to Deep Work Out Loud, the thinking that fuels our life, our work, and our leadership. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. This is the podcast where I sit with another professional coach, and we do some work around a single concept, a piece of inspiration, a topic we've seen come up, something we've been thinking about, something we've seen come up in our coaching, maybe.

And if we're very lucky, while we're talking about it, we might demonstrate what coaching might look and feel like for a minute. But we'll see how this goes. It's all an experiment. With any luck, you will leave with something that you can apply and use in your work or your life, or both. Today, I'm here with Dr.

Michael Hein, author of the book, "Shifting Toward Unorthodoxy: 10 Conventional Mindsets That Help Healthcare Leaders Succeed in a Complex World." Dr. Michael Hein brings more than two decades of healthcare leadership experience and 40 years of experience in healthcare. His leadership spanned a multi-specialty practice, integrated health systems, academic medicine, and startup [00:01:00] ventures.

A former CEO of a regional network of hospitals and health systems, and a chief medical officer within the Catholic Health Initiatives system. He has led through complexity at every level of the healthcare enterprise. Drawing on a unique blend of experience as an intern, student, researcher, clinician, educator, and athletic coach, Dr.

Hein partners with executives to elevate leadership performance in complex adaptive environments. His coaching helps leaders expand awareness, uncover self-limiting beliefs, and develop the capacity to lead with clarity and purpose. Welcome, Michael.

Dr. Michael Hein: It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks.

Julie Harris Oliver: Well, thanks for coming.

Dr. Michael Hein: Yeah,

Julie Harris Oliver: So

Dr. Michael Hein: that,

Julie Harris Oliver: what brought you to this work? I mean, not the medical work, but the coaching work, the writing work.

Dr. Michael Hein: I did never imagine that I would end up being an executive coach. I've been doing that now for eight years full-time. And I was a CEO-- When I was serving as a CEO of a network of hospitals, I was stepping out of that role, and I, I [00:02:00] didn't really know what I was gonna do next. And I'd had coaches before two executive coaches, and valued that relationship to the point that I insisted on having it as part of my compensation package for the, senior roles that I had prior to leaving the role as a CEO. I decided to hire a coach for transition work, knowing that expedite the work. I could have figured things out myself, I suppose, in six to 12 months, but, with a coach might help me come to some clarity sooner. So I hired a coach as part of that engagement, the idea of me becoming an executive coach myself came up went through training at the Hudson Institute of Coaching experimented with it for a year as a contract coach with a couple of companies And fell in love with the work. And I've been doing it ever since for Medi Leadership about 2018.

Julie Harris Oliver: Wonderful. You bring such a unique perspective to the coaching world. And there's a [00:03:00] million topics we could discuss in this book, but we're probably only gonna have time for one.

Dr. Michael Hein: Mm-hmm.

Julie Harris Oliver: we had talked about talking about the first work concept. So why don't you, lay out what that is?

Dr. Michael Hein: Yeah, I think then in order to answer what the first work is and why it's in the book, in the chapter is the book is really written for leaders who are working in this sort of uncertain, ambiguous, volatile, complex environments that we are encountering, I think, everywhere, in every industry, and particularly in US healthcare. And that's just tough. That's tough territory to be well and do well in. And so that chapter on the first work is really the first of a, uh, the third part of the book we talk about what kind of things as a leader do I need to pay attention to in order to be well within the kind of environments that are so challenging for us today as leaders. [00:04:00] first work about how important it is for us to pay attention to our wellbeing as part of leadership work, not as part of life, if you will, but part of being well leader and think of it as foundational work to leadership. If you're not doing the first work, then it's really difficult for you to lead well in those kinds of...

and be well in those kind of environments that we talked about.

Julie Harris Oliver: So you're talking about the work on yourself in your body, and you had several different aspects about it: physical, spiritual, relationships. You can probably name them better than I can.

Dr. Michael Hein: Yeah. I'll tell you something. One of my favorite authors, her name is Jennifer Garvey Berger, and she does quite a bit of work in complex work environments. I admire her work. And I listened to one of her podcasts, and she said something profound, at least it was profound for me. She said this, I'm gonna quote, I forget that I have a body." [00:05:00] And that... why that lands with me is that, you know what? This thing that we reside in is all we have. It is the platform on which we lead. Sometimes we think it's, you know, leadership is about our head, but it's this entire body, of which includes our brain, and the physiology of our body. that's where this notion of the first work of leadership, paying attention to the body that is the platform of which I do all of my leadership out of.

Julie Harris Oliver: And so how do you do that?

Dr. Michael Hein: Well, I think first of all is putting it in the right priority saying, "Okay, look, I can't lead well I'm not well." And what does that mean? Well, it probably means a little bit different for everybody, but it certainly does pay attention to physical fitness. Like, am I getting some kind of exercise on a routine basis? It requires time to recover and let that brain [00:06:00] and the stress levels that come along with it settle down a bit, which settles down some of our physiology that gets in our way f- for our physical health over the long period of time. I think it's paying attention to the kind of relationships that matter to us, investing the time and energy to sustain those and keep those healthy because that brings such a sense of wellbeing and purpose into our lives. And I think there's a spiritual aspect this to... as well, depending on, you know, what that means for you. But paying attention to those things that are bigger than ourselves and give us meaning in the work that we do. So it is spending the time the energy to invest in those characteristics of being well.

Julie Harris Oliver: It sounds so simple when you say it like that, but, but we know it's not. What makes it hard?

Dr. Michael Hein: Oh, boy. Well, I think one of the things that makes it really hard for leaders is that the way that we tend to [00:07:00] make sense of work and leadership in particular, we, most leaders are sort of high-performing individuals. They've gotten into those roles because they've invested a lot of time and energy and effort over the years.

And many of us say, like, when things get hard, what do we do? We just work harder, give more time, get more education, put in longer hours, and that idea surrounds us in the workplace. So there's sort of a socialized norm or a socialized expectation about what, you know, what amount of time or energy we expect of ourselves as well as those around us. And that gets in the way. Like, there's only 24 hours in a day. We all have the same amount of time, and we've gotta sleep some we've gotta take care of this physical body some, and we can't just keep doing more and more and more and more in order to stay on top of things. it's [00:08:00] that pressure, I think, that's maybe the biggest thing that gets in the way is the socialized pattern around us does not necessarily support spending the time and energy and effort to pay attention to this physical body we reside in.

Julie Harris Oliver: Well, and it works for a while, right? You can grind for a while till it all goes off the rails. Did you, Have you always been good at that, or did you come to a point where you were like, "Hold on,

Dr. Michael Hein: Well,

Julie Harris Oliver: I'm gonna need to start taking care of myself or this is not gonna work"?

Dr. Michael Hein: Look, I think many of your readers are, are your listeners are very similar to me. Like I was an athlete when I was younger. I competed in college. That was always... It was a big part of my life, a big part of who I was, and then after college was when that wasn't part of what I did. I was, like, investing in education and trying to find my way in the world and doing my best, and ended up going years without exercising on a regular basis, without paying attention to my diet somewhat sacrificing the [00:09:00] relationships around me.

So yes, I've done those very same things, lived that very same pattern, and know... And

Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Hein: travel schedule gets in the way, I'm just weary and tired, and I don't spend the time that I know that I want to do. So yes, I too even though preach and know that this is so important, struggle.

I think that's just part of being human. And we had more conversations about this agreed together that this was something really important for all of us to show up at our best, I think it would be different. It would be a little easier for us to actually spend the time to celebrate when people did get away to recover, so we knew that when they came back they would be at their best. I think that would help us if we would have more dialogue about how important this was to leadership, not just to being a healthy human.

Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, if leaders would model that. [00:10:00] You know, we have so many companies now have gone to unlimited PTO, and it seems like such a safe bet to do, right? Because the top leadership doesn't take any PTO, so no one feels like they can take any PTO. So what a difference it is when a leader can actually model, "I'm gonna go rest.

I'm gonna go recharge for two weeks. See y'all when I get back."

Dr. Michael Hein: Yeah, I mean, just wanna agree with that, and honestly, whether we... Maybe we could have a discussion about whether it's fair or not, but I tend to put a little more responsibility, let's say, on the top leader. Let's say it's the

Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah.

Dr. Michael Hein: what the CEO says, it's how they live their life in front of the people around them. It's one thing to say, "Hey, don't feel like you need to answer my emails or answer my texts over the weekend. I'm just getting work off my list you can wait on it until you know, wait on it till Monday." You [00:11:00] can say those things it's actually the way you are living in the world. The fact that you're doing your work on Saturday or Sunday, people are seeing that. Or you're showing up at 6:00 AM and going home at eight or nine o'clock every night. you can say, "I don't expect you... What are you still doing here? I don't expect you to do that." Those words don't land in folks as permission to live a different life, a life that's healthy.

What they're watching is they're watching what you're doing and how you're living in the world, and people will hold that as that's what's expected of me. And so if your direct reports see you doing that, they're gonna pattern that after you. And guess what? All their direct reports are watching them do that, and pretty soon you've patterned a habit across hundreds of individuals or even thousands of individuals about the way we do work and the way we do life around here. It doesn't really matter what you say, [00:12:00] more what you do. And back to my point in the book, that's why the first work... One of the reasons why the first work of leadership is the first work. Like, you set the tone as the CEO about how we're going to be with one another as we go about doing the work, which includes caring for these bodies that we all must reside in to do the work we need to get done.

Julie Harris Oliver: And through that whole picture, you're modeling what the expectations are, but you're also modeling what success looks like.

Dr. Michael Hein: Mm-hmm.

Julie Harris Oliver: And that, you know, that can go so many different directions, so to be really thoughtful and deliberate about that is so important. We were talking on an earlier podcast about I'm always quoting John Amaechi on this, but the power a leader has, especially a top executive, when you walk in a room, if you take a deep breath, you have a regulated nervous system, it regulates everybody else's nervous system, right?

Allows everyone else to breathe, sets a whole tone for how a meeting is gonna go. [00:13:00] And this to me is in the same category, right? Modeling we're gonna care for ourselves and our body and our people, and that's gonna be one of our top values.

Dr. Michael Hein: I think the two are connected, that if you're caring for this body, which includes recovery time, it allows you or positions you to be m- more likely to show up in that way you describe, you're composed you're able to stay curious, and you're able to hold differences, and particularly be in polar situations or ambigu- ambiguous situations that are high, and the stresses, the stress or the sense of urgency from others is high.

You're able to walk in a room and hold all of that far better if you yourself are well in a state of recovery than if you're not. If you're stressed, if you've not paid attention to the demands of living in this body to be well and recovered, you're gonna show up stressed out as well. People [00:14:00] are gonna pick up on that.

They're gonna pattern just what you show up like, just like you said. So I think the first work is the foundation of being able to show up at your best, which is what you described.

Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. And I think when they-- when leaders don't, it's so evident in how they behave. Like, we all know that leader who lives on Red Bull during the day and whiskey at night, and boy, are they unpleasant at times to be around and is not as effective at this as they need to be. I was-- I would love for you to talk a bit, in the book you describe it in terms of athleticism and how top athletes work stress, and then they recover and the physiology of that and how that relates to leadership.

Could you, could you do a type five on that?

Dr. Michael Hein: Yeah, I think in the book to pay attention to the physiology of living in these bodies and pushing them to their limit. We of course see that very similar pattern in athletes. [00:15:00] and there's a condition that happens in athletes when they've been training relentlessly without sufficient recovery. It's a clinical syndrome, and they call it the overtraining syndrome. one of the things that happens with this is that you-- the human body isn't able to perform. That's how the athlete knows they're in an overtraining state is that, "I can't, I can't perform." And, and really what happens is oftentimes that's a career-ending, condition ... the only way to get over it is to is to rest. And even after resting, getting back into training regimen, these elite athletes rarely can achieve the same level that they were performing prior to suffering from overtraining syndrome. So this is actually not an adaptive state. Like, our body is always trying to adapt to the stresses that it encounters. That means receives a challenge, [00:16:00] and then it tries to recover and change and grow. So that's how our muscles get bigger, or that's how our performances improve, whatever sport we're talking about. when there's too much stress, when the load of stress is so high- The body continues to try to adapt, but it can't. And what happens is a maladaptive state. That means it actually starts to destroy itself in its attempt to try to recover without opportunity to recover. Well, in the book, I lay out all the conditions that happen in overtraining syndrome in athletes, and I compare them to the list of conditions that we see in burnout in executives, the list is identical. That means there's something about unrelenting stress in the human body, whether you're an athlete or you're a leader, that leads to a maladaptive state that makes us perform poorly, whether you're leading or whether you're trying to compete. And some of the references I make in there is to a body of work that was done [00:17:00] years ago called The Corporate Athlete, which really landed well with me years ago. And it's just continuing on this idea that let's remember, as Jennifer Garvey Berger says, "Sometimes I forget I have a body," but it's this body that does the performance, including leadership. And if you are under unrelenting stress without sufficient recovery, your body cannot adapt to that. Your brain cannot adapt to that. Your physiology cannot adapt to that. It will maladapt, which diminishes your performance. And the way it shows up is just like you say. show up and they're edgy, and they're not at their best, and it actually gets in the way of people doing solid work or wanting to work in that environment. They move on to other places because it's so, caustic. And it has to do with how stressed and how we're not at our best when we're that way.

Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. So let's talk about what it [00:18:00] really looks like and-- 'cause I think so many people are just burned out right now, for real. 'Cause I think what it is not is working like crazy for six months, checking out to take a 10-day vacation. It takes you four or five days to unplug and actually put your phone down and actually not engage, and then you get maybe a couple days of rest, and you come back tired from your vacation.

So this isn't how to do it. So what do you recommend?

Dr. Michael Hein: Yeah, so the human body needs a regular cadence of recovery. I think one of the key things that I would like coaches and leaders to keep in mind is it's not during stress that your body gets better. Your body gets better during recovery. The stress breaks down your body- But the recovery allows it to adapt to that stress.

So keeping that in mind, saying, "It's actually the recovery that makes me stronger. It's the recovery that makes me a better leader. [00:19:00] So how can I have moments of recovery that allow this body to adapt to the stresses that it's under?" So a regular cadence is key, and I think in the book I point out three different cadences. There's, like, ca- things that happen every day, things that happen maybe once a month, then there's things that may happen a couple times a year. And I think the best approach is to have all three of those present in your life to some degree, in whatever way that that works for you. So a daily cadence is something like what we see is a pattern.

Oftentimes it's in the morning. It doesn't have to be in the morning, but oftentimes it's a morning where there's a non-negotiable routine. I get up at the same time. I have a moment where maybe I'm reflective or I'm journaling, I'm praying, I'm meditating. And then maybe there's a 20 or 30-minute exercise routine where you're working on your physical fitness, whether it's strength or it's aerobic or it's a combination of [00:20:00] that. And then maybe it's sitting down and having breakfast with your family and your kids, even for 15 or 20 minutes, just to connect with them. There's the relationship piece, and that might be something that happens from 5:00 AM to 6:30 in the morning, or some leaders are up at 4:00 or It's every single day.

It's non-negotiable, which means it happens every day, even while you're traveling, and that's the commitment you have. And notice that, I mean, you've gotta do that stuff anyway, right? Well, you gotta eat, but now you're gonna eat with your kids or with your spouse or your significant other. Or 20, 20 minutes of getting on a treadmill or riding a bike or rowing or going out for a walk outdoors or something, that's not a huge commitment of time. can make those decisions. And then a five-minute meditation, that's oftentimes what I invite leaders to do if they've never had a spiritual practice, is get Headspace app. Five minutes of meditation has been shown to [00:21:00] reset your brain. So it's not a big commitment of time, but it is a commitment, and you lay that out on a daily basis, whatever way that works for you. maybe there's a, like, a monthly routine you spend, you know, y- you calen- you put on your calendar four hours of think time. This is time for me to reflect what's going on at work for, for, for the last month, at what my priorities are, reflect on those, how am I doing, what needs to be adjusted. It's just time where you're not in a meeting. It's no

Julie Harris Oliver: What did you call it?

Dr. Michael Hein: I just want some monthly meeting, just a four-hour block on your calendar where you just think

Julie Harris Oliver: Okay.

Dr. Michael Hein: space. That's what we name it in our company as well. Heads up space where you're not

Julie Harris Oliver: Sure.

Dr. Michael Hein: You're checking in. That's reflective recovery time that takes you off the day-to-day activities that oftentimes drains us and is so stressful. We can do that. You can put that in your calendar. It's a [00:22:00] meeting. It's a meeting with yourself. And then the last thing I would say is these more routine getting away.

So this is where maybe the vacation time or PTO comes in. Most of the leaders that I've worked with, they recognize already, you know what? If I get away for five to seven days once a quarter, or maybe it's a long weekend every four to five months, I come back charged. I can really do really well with that. Sometimes it's three times a year, sometimes it's twice a year, but it's extended period of time where you're away and you are away meaning you're not focused on the day-to-day activities. And I'm not a big fan of work-life balance, that equation, even though I mention it in the book. I, I'm a bigger fan of this notion of integration, like work-life integration.

We're whole human beings. Get away for a, a long weekend. That doesn't necessarily mean you can't do any work, or maybe you're not... Maybe this is an opportunity for you to [00:23:00] read the book, the leadership book that you have been wanting to read because it will help you be a better leader. It's those kind of activities that could be folded into that recovery time, or maybe just nothing.

I don't want to do anything at all. I just wanna go hike in the mountains and just think about life and my place in it and what meaning I'm bringing to the world. So all three of those kind of cadences, those daily, monthly, and then a couple times a calendar year, I think those are important for leaders to have that kind of recovery space in order for them to continue to adapt to the challenges that they're facing.

Julie Harris Oliver: And I'm hearing that it is a commitment, and you calendar it, and you protect it.

Dr. Michael Hein: Yeah.

Julie Harris Oliver: I'm a little iffy on the 4:00 AM doing all that stuff before you start your day. Like, I gotta be honest,

Dr. Michael Hein: I said, "No, you don't have to do four AM." A lot of leaders do, though. I mean, we do

Julie Harris Oliver: I know.

Dr. Michael Hein: routine, that that's, that's fairly common. But yes, you picked up some key things. A, it's a [00:24:00] commitment. B, it's on your calendar. I heard one leader say this leadership coach say this: the person you will be in six to twelve months is the person that's on your ca- what your calendar looks like today." Like for leaders, our calendar becomes the logbook of who we are and who we're becoming. And it's one of the few things we really do have control over to some degree. have control over what gets on our calendar. I'm-- I have lots of stories about calendars, but yes, put it on your calendar. It's a meeting with yourself.

Make it a priority.

Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. I'm also hearing like, is this, It might be more effective to ramp up, right? 'Cause I, I'm, I'm thinking, okay, I could probably-- even though I'm not an early riser, and if I start at 8:00 AM, it's tough to do a bunch of stuff before that.

Dr. Michael Hein: Yeah.

Julie Harris Oliver: But I could probably commit to something. I'm not gonna commit to 10 things out of the [00:25:00] gate 'cause I think that's setting myself up for failure.

But I might think, okay, I could do a meditation before I start. I could make sure I get breakfast every day before I start. I could meditate instead of scrolling. So really I'm thinking one bite at a time. Are you thinking about it that way or whole hog?

Dr. Michael Hein: No, I, I think we, we both know, and, and this is the physician in me, you know, it's one thing to tell patients, "Hey, you need to eat better." But the way we are in the world, and I think maybe the coaches amongst us will recognize this, there's reasons why we're this way in the world. So even if you're-- find yourself scrolling instead of having breakfast, I think it's really important for you to have c- you know, have some insight about, well, what does, does scrolling bring to me? What, what meaning, what value is it bringing to me that I keep reaching for this? Is there something else I could do instead that would bring something similar that might actually move me in a direction that I want to go? [00:26:00] So, you know, maybe it's a combination of breakfast and scrolling. I don't know. Like, I know that, you know, I want to read books, and so I ride bikes in the morning. I like try to ride my bike in the morning, and I bought a stand and a book thing so I could read a book while I was riding my bike to try to do both of them. So it's combining things together, experiment with the things to see what works well for you and what doesn't.

And for sure, just start with one thing and see if you can't-- if that brings meaning to you, if it's helpful for you. I like to do like, with my clients, I'll say, "Well, why-- how long can you commit to experimenting with this?" I always call them experiments. Can you do it for three months? How about four weeks? Would you like to try to eat breakfast every day for four weeks? That's it. And if you find that in four weeks that didn't work for you, great. Let's see if we can find something else for you to work on.

Julie Harris Oliver: that just makes me laugh, 'cause what's the argument? "No, I'm not gonna eat breakfast." " No, that's a terrible idea."[00:27:00]

Dr. Michael Hein: But people... I mean, there's reasons why we skip breakfast.

Julie Harris Oliver: "Oh, sure, I'm doing intermittent fasting. I'm keto. I'm..." You know, whatever the thing is.

Dr. Michael Hein: Yeah, whatever. I mean, isn't that one of the beautiful things about being coaches is that human beings are, including ourselves, ceaselessly fascinating creatures, and we are in the world reasons. Like, we do things that we're doing for reasons. We may not be aware of what they are, but they're bringing something useful to us.

Julie Harris Oliver: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Michael Hein: And I think it's important for us to recognize without judgment I don't like to eat breakfast because I would rather sleep in and and, and just run to work. I don't know. I'm, I'm making it up off the top of my head.

Julie Harris Oliver: But no, I th- I think the, I think the nugget in there is that instead of, you know, sleepwalking through our life and having these habits, it's knowing what we're doing and why so that, so that we can make choices about what we're doing with some clarity and intention.

Dr. Michael Hein: In my world that [00:28:00] is, that is at the heart of coaching, is to be curious together how we're both thinking about whatever it is around leadership we're thinking about, and that includes how do I be my best self in this human body that I reside in? And h- you know, what would I like to do? What's in my way? And how come I have the patterns I have? Those inward-looking and trying to get some clarity about those things can unlock some insights for us that shift our behavior in permanent ways.

Julie Harris Oliver: Mm-hmm. Is there anything else that you would leave us with on this topic?

Dr. Michael Hein: it with this. If we think about what we talk about physical fitness, spiritual health, relationship mental health, if we think about those things as things to pay attention to, and we tend to frame the world through a work versus life framework, what I would advocate is that [00:29:00] work, oftentimes it's on the life side of that equation. I fundamentally believe that to be your best leadership self, you must be physically well, whatever that means for you, spiritually fit, whatever that means for you, relationally fit, and mentally fit. That's leadership work because you can't lead effectively if those things are not well for you. I think it sits on the work side Of the work-life balance, not the life side. It's not something you try to squeeze in, in the middle of a busy, crazy day or maybe once a week because that's the only time you have it. No, it's foundational. the beginning work of leadership work. In my mind, when I step on a bicycle in the morning, the minute I put my foot on the pedal, I'm starting my workday, and that's at 4:30 in the morning. That's my workday because I've made that shift, and my mindset is, "This is work." [00:30:00] I wouldn't be stepping on this bicycle if I didn't believe that it was so important to how I showed up as a leader or as a coach. That's the mindset shift that serves us well, putting that on the work side of the work-life balance rather than the life side the work-life balance.

Julie Harris Oliver: Okay, haven't heard that one before. Really good. . This is the book, "Shifting Toward Unorthodoxy," and we will put that as well as where to find you in the show notes. So Dr. Michael Hein, thank you so much for doing this.

To find Dr. Hein

—MEDI Leadership’s page: 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/medileadership/

—Dr. Hein’s page: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heindoc/

Dr. Michael Hein: us. Thank you. It's been a pleasure.

This has been Deep Work Out Loud. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. I'd like to thank Dr. Michael Hein for joining the podcast.

Julie Harris Oliver: If any of this resonates with you, please subscribe and leave a review at all the podcast places, and please share this episode with a friend. If you'd like to work with me, you can find me at julieharrisoliver.com. and let me leave you with this invitation. How can you commit to [00:31:00] doing the first work this week?

Not all of it maybe, but what are you gonna try? What are you gonna try first? Take this on as an experiment. Try some things. Thanks for listening. See you next time.