EP 19: I Am Who I Am, Not What I Do: Dion Elliot Jensen on Identity, Ego, and Love-Based Leadership | Deep Work Out Loud
Julie Harris Oliver: Welcome to Deep Work Out Loud, the thinking that fuels our life, our work, and our leadership. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. This is the podcast where usually I sit with another professional coach and we do some work around a single concept, a piece of inspiration, a topic we've seen come up in our coaching, something that's really present for us.
And if we're really lucky while we're talking about it, we might demonstrate what coaching might look and feel like, but we'll see how this goes. It's all an experiment, but with any luck, you'll leave with something that you can apply and use in your work or your life, or both. And I think today especially that is going to happen today.
I'm here with Dion Elliot Jensen. Dion is a parent, a partner, and a seeker, and the author of the book, conscious Footsteps, who has walked through Love loss truth and transformation. Born and raised in Australia. He has spent much of his life creating, building, and reflecting often at the intersection of business, creativity, and the [00:01:00] human spirit. His work and words explore what it means to live with presence and purpose in a world that constantly pulls us away from both. from experience, lived, felt, and sometimes wrestled with. And in those rare moments when awareness and honesty meet. Away from writing. He finds inspiration in family nature, long walks and conversations that go far beneath the surface. Okay, so let's do some deep work out loud. Hi Dion.
Dion Elliot Jensen: Hi, how are you? Thanks for having me.
Julie Harris Oliver: Oh, thank you for doing this. I know you are in Australia at seven o'clock in the
Dion Elliot Jensen: Yes, we flipped, haven't we?
Julie Harris Oliver: you. Yes. So tell me what, what brought you to this work?
Dion Elliot Jensen: What brought me to the work was well, I always say I'm a bit of an accidental author because I never really intended to write a book, but there was a profound amount of change that happened in a very concentrated period of time in life, and I used writing as a way to process a lot of those feelings and [00:02:00] emotions.
'cause I wasn't overly good at talking to others about how I felt. And this was a way for me to be able to get those emotions and feelings out onto a page and then be able to distill them for myself in my own mind. So I had quite a few journals just lying around. And I'm a real a walker. I love to walk, I love to be out in, in nature, and I do a lot of processing thought wise while I'm, while I'm walking.
Julie Harris Oliver: Hmm.
Dion Elliot Jensen: and then I, , came to the conclusion that it would be worthwhile putting them all down into a consolidated book with the premise that if it could help at least one other person get through some of the really deep emotions that I've been having and experiences with aren't, which aren't. So nuance that they're unique to me, then it'll be really worthwhile putting it out into the world.
And then the book Conscious Footsteps kind of came about. So what you get in the book is. Not a series of chapters necessarily, but what I've termed a series of walks where, although there's a congruent story arc [00:03:00] to the book, overall, you can read a walk slash chapter in isolation and then hopefully go on a physical walk and allow it to wash over you.
And it may resonate, it may not. Um, but that just doesn't mean it's for, for right now, it just could be a walk for another time.
Julie Harris Oliver: I love how you put it together and it really does read like that. 'cause you read a, a walk and then you really gotta think about it for a minute. It's not, you're not gonna sit down and read a cover to cover.
Dion Elliot Jensen: Correct.
Julie Harris Oliver: But it is so, I just found it so thoughtful and beautiful and,
Dion Elliot Jensen: Thank you.
Julie Harris Oliver: some of, some of your sentences just stopped me short and I had, oh, oh, let me, wow.
Lemme read that again.
Dion Elliot Jensen: Thank you.
Julie Harris Oliver: in the. with the theme of the show, we were gonna talk about kinda one theme, so why don't you introduce, why don't you introduce that one theme.
Dion Elliot Jensen: sure. One of my I would say biggest takeaways from all of the change I went through was around the identity shift or the death of my ego, and that really led me to write,
[00:04:00] I wouldn't say it's my most important walk, but it's the one that really did resonate with me the strongest. And it is, I am who I am, not what I do.
The reason why that's so important to me is my entire identity was scaffolded around the corporate position that I held, um, that when I was fired very, very abruptly from that role I felt as though I was nobody. And I had essentially outsourced my personal worth to a third party. And when I look back at it now, in hindsight, it was so incredibly cruel to myself to have done that.
And that's why it's so, so important to me.
Julie Harris Oliver: So just to say you were a CEO
Dion Elliot Jensen: Hmm. Yeah. I was, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: And so when you got fired from that, it seems like it, it just broke everything open.
Dion Elliot Jensen: Hmm, hmm. It was an incredible catalyst for a lot of change in [00:05:00] my life. And as I said, it's not such a nuanced. Thing that's happened to me that no one else will ever experience that. I think job loss, whether it's through redundancy, whether it's through ill health, whether it's through, you know, performance management that nobody saw coming, whatever it may be, we're all going to have, I believe, a catalyst point in life and that can either quite literally make or break us and it very much nearly broke me.
Julie Harris Oliver: I, I think it's actually quite relatable, especially in America 2026,
where there's so many layoffs happening and I went through it a couple years ago myself, where even though by the time I got laid off, I was saying, please, please my turn. me outta here. Because it was, it was so hard to be there during that time.
And even though when it came, I was like, Ugh, relief. Like, yes, that's what I wanted. And then I still had all the feelings that come with that and I was shocked. 'cause I thought, oh, I'm ready. I want this.
Dion Elliot Jensen: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: wait a minute, what does that mean about who I am [00:06:00] and what they
Dion Elliot Jensen: Yes. I.
Julie Harris Oliver: blah?
You know, all the things.
Dion Elliot Jensen: Exactly. Our, our identities are so intrinsically linked to what we do but we just are willfully blind to that fact. The analogy that I use in the book and I I hope this resonates quite easily with, with the listeners, is when you meet somebody new, once you get beyond those initial pleasantries of, hi, my name is.
There's always this awkward lull and you, unless you're a really great conversationalist and it almost always goes to, so what do you do? Wouldn't it be amazing if we went, tell me about yourself, but we'll get to that point later on,
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah.
Dion Elliot Jensen: so as soon as we go, so what do you do? And you reply with, oh, I'm a neurosurgeon.
I'll go, okay, JUUL is a neurosurgeon. Great. So all of my internal or subconscious bias starts kicking in. I'm like, okay, she's [00:07:00] really intelligent. Okay, I've gotta put her up on a pedestal because we, we would put that type of job role on a pedestal. Now, interestingly, you could be. A perpetrator of domestic abuse in the background at home, when nonetheless, and we've decided to be completely immune or blind to that fact.
And then the conversation would continue with me having your mask of neurosurgeon applied. Now, I don't know then if you are a family person, I don't know if you are. Heart led. I don't know any of the really good, meaty, worthwhile things knowing about you. All I know is Julie's neurosurgeon. You say, oh, and what do you D Dion?
And I said, well, I'm I'm, I'm an Uber driver. And then your internal bias would kick in and you would go, okay, he's an Uber driver. And whatever bias you've got linked to that. X, Y, Z would be applied. Now, I might be an Uber driver because I've been. Successful in the past and now [00:08:00] I have all of this freedom of time and I just really love speaking to people.
So that's why I do it because I get put in all these wonderful different social situations where I can really explore who people are.
Julie Harris Oliver: I'd had that Uber
Dion Elliot Jensen: yeah, exactly. We all have, and or I might just need flexibility because I have a disabled child at home and I'm the primary carer and I just do this to, to get out.
But unfortunately. Society doesn't do that. And then what we end up doing is having this interaction or conversation between two masks that we never really get deep beneath the surface where we get to comfortably expose who we truly are or do we care about digging deeper into somebody into somebody else.
So then what happens is we become, or our identity becomes really linked to that role that we perform. Hence the chapter. I Am Who I am, not what I do. If you don't have any substance or you don't have the ability to talk about yourself beneath the surface you never [00:09:00] really form a quality relationship or a quality connection with a new person.
And these interactions go on and on and on over many, many years, and it doesn't necessarily need to be just in the, in the working world. I use some other examples and I get very specific around, please don't caught up in the gender labels that I apply to these. But, you know, moms have careers beforehand.
Then they become moms or they have children, and then their identity tends to shift based on that new role. Whereas in both roles, potentially who they are underneath them has, has become lost or, or clouded as well. So I think it's a really interesting topic because as I said, a lot of us do it and we're just willfully blind to the fact that we've attached our identity to, to what we do.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. You laid a lot on the table here.
Dion Elliot Jensen: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: The the, the point you said about, and I read about it in the book, when, when you go to a party and that's how you introduce yourself and you basically said this, but it introduces a power dynamic immediately. really hard to get [00:10:00] out of. And then I've been in that situation where then it feels rude to ask more questions about, oh, do you have a family?
Or what do you like? 'cause it, you know, also, I was thinking as you were explaining that the, that the identity piece, if you're getting a lot out of that identity piece, you have no incentive to go any deeper. 'cause you know, the spoils of the, of the big job are intoxicating and feel great. And of course that's, that's what I want my identity to be.
Dion Elliot Jensen: Exactly right. And another, another kind of point that I make in that chapter is a job role serves two purposes, mainly. One, it's to feed the ego of the job holder, and secondly, it's to signal to the person you're communicating with what value or worth you can be to them. And then that just in turn comes back to signal back to your ego again.
So it's completely ego driven and we just really forget the fact that [00:11:00] our roles are temporary, but our identity is not. Yet. We hide behind that as a disguise.
Julie Harris Oliver: That really speaks to me having spent 30 years in Hollywood. Uh, Boy. I'll just give you one example that I have a million. Early in my career I was in production finance, and I worked at HBO. Wow, what a great job that was. And my husband at the time was an actor, and so we would go to parties with actors and they would ask me what I did and they would immediately become absolutely disinterested in me, turn on their heel and walk
Dion Elliot Jensen: Wow.
Julie Harris Oliver: was literally like, what do you do? Oh, I work in production, finance.
Dion Elliot Jensen: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: And they were gone.
And I was like, wow. Wow.
yeah,
Wild.
Dion Elliot Jensen: yeah. It's awful, isn't it? Absolutely awful. Yeah. And the, the, the, the real underlying issue there is the missed opportunity for two [00:12:00] humans to make a true connection and based on who they are. And it could have been such a worthwhile connection, or it could also have been a terrible connection.
We never know, but. It is such a missed opportunity because it's just so ego driven.
Julie Harris Oliver: And it was so bizarre. 'cause what, what they didn't know is I have an acting degree and we probably are, could totally be friends. And also I work at HBO, which is where you're trying to get
Dion Elliot Jensen: Yeah. Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: like what are we
Dion Elliot Jensen: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: but the other thing I thought of while, while reading this is because you think of like, what are the alternatives? I remember listening to someone who said, when they go to a party, they don't ask people what they do. They ask, what did you do today?
Dion Elliot Jensen: Mm.
Julie Harris Oliver: And that gets someone talking like, oh man, this happened and this happened. And there, there's so much opportunity for real connection. If you just talk about, you know, the mundanity of your day.
Dion Elliot Jensen: Yeah,
Julie Harris Oliver: word mundanity?
Dion Elliot Jensen: like it. We'll run with it.
Julie Harris Oliver: The mundaneness of having a mundane day. At the end of the day, everyone has to,
Dion Elliot Jensen: Yes.[00:13:00]
Julie Harris Oliver: get your groceries and drive somewhere.
Dion Elliot Jensen: Yes. Well, the irony of all of this in, in writing this chapter was I ended up playing a game. And making it into a game because you also don't want to be, you have to recognize, I should say that asking. Questions that go beneath the surface can be confronting to the receiver. And I've always believed when you communicate, you've gotta be responsible for the wake that you are leaving when you are, when you are asking the questions.
So I try to be more disarming in how, in how I would ask it. And in a very lighthearted sense, I would say, Julie, tell me about yourself, but let's play a game. You can't tell me what you do and I'll try and figure it out at the end. So
Julie Harris Oliver: sorry.
Dion Elliot Jensen: not, it's not. It, it, it, it's just trying to make it not land so heavily because the initial response.
Because we become internal when we receive a question like that is, oh goodness, what am I gonna say?
Julie Harris Oliver: Panic.
Dion Elliot Jensen: How, how do I answer this? And the irony [00:14:00] of all of this was people would then say to me, so tell me about yourself. And I would be like God, how do I answer it now?
Julie Harris Oliver: I'm the guy who asked the really good question.
Dion Elliot Jensen: Yeah. Yeah. Doesn't mean I have the answer though.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah.
Dion Elliot Jensen: I think that's, that's a really great way to begin to remove the mask and the interaction is to almost call out at the start that you don't wanna know what they do, but just tell me about yourself first. But as I said, be prepared for that question to be asked back to you and. Although it might be confronting, it's really fun to then try and answer it because when you're struggling to come to come to a point where you've got something that you feel comfortable in responding with, it's just as useful in that process of knowing what you are as also recognizing what you are not.
So it's not just about saying, I'm this, I'm this. It's also knowing internally that I'm not that. But I think kids do it so well. Kids are the perfect, perfect example of how these [00:15:00] interactions should really go. And you can just picture them in the playground and they meet somebody new and they're like, hi, my name is, I'm this many years old.
I don't like this. And I like that. And they know so much about each other and they form a bond so quickly. And that's because that bond's actually been made around what really resonates within them and what's true as opposed to this veneer. That they're communicating through.
Julie Harris Oliver: Oh, and they ask, and will you be my
Dion Elliot Jensen: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's so pure.
Their interactions are so incredibly pure, and we could learn such a lot from them because they've got no ego layered over that communication.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, I have. I have two things I wanna ask you, and
both of 'em are gonna take us a completely different
Dion Elliot Jensen: Sure.
Julie Harris Oliver: to decide which one to do first. First I wanna ask you tell me about yourself without telling me what you do.
Dion Elliot Jensen: Yeah. Okay. And now when I get asked that question, I've got a, I've got a response that I always give.
Julie Harris Oliver: I figured you
Dion Elliot Jensen: yeah, I'd want to, um, so I answer it [00:16:00] in two components, or two parts I should say. Firstly, I always say I'm a work in progress. I used to feel as though I was a finished product but now I really recognize that my perfection is in my imperfection.
I'm constantly growing. I'm constantly learning new things about those around me. But more importantly, I'm constantly learning more about myself. And as I said before, I'm learning just as much as what I'm not as, just as much as what I'm learning, of what I am and the other one which in this day and age it can get really misconstrued.
So I'll expand on it a little bit further. And that's, I always say I'm a lover. And the reason it gets misconstrued is we've got this kind of distorted perception around what love is. And love always is this, almost commercialized feeling or emotion or definition. Now that is often linked to sex.
It's often linked to reciprocation and [00:17:00] obligation, whereas for me when I say that I'm a lover, I believe my purpose in life, and in fact everybody's purpose in life, is to provide a love-based energy to how they move throughout the world. And the reason I say I love-based energy is oh yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: please just say that sentence again.
Dion Elliot Jensen: I believe that everyone's purpose in life is to move through the world with a love-based energy.
Julie Harris Oliver: It's beautiful.
Dion Elliot Jensen: Thank you. So what I mean by that is the only true feeling that as human beings or emotion that we are capable of is love. When a baby is born, they only know love. They dunno how to hate. They dunno how to be ego-based. They dunno jealousy, they dunno any other emotion. Everything else is taught. It's the only intrinsic feeling they know yet.
As we move through the world, as stories we are told begin to get layered on [00:18:00] top, as we become subjected to society we learn to withhold love, we learn to manage it, to restrict it, to only give it if it's being returned to us and it becomes really confined and constrained. Whereas for me, when I talk about that being my purpose for life.
Everything I do should be coming from a basis of pure love and recognizing that it's only something that needs to go out one way. And if it doesn't come back to you, that's absolutely fine, but it should never change your baseline vibration or resonance. That should be how you operate and everything else is then layered on top of that.
So a long way to answer your question, I'm a work in progress. And I'm a lover.
Julie Harris Oliver: How did you get from, if I'm not the CEO, who am I
Dion Elliot Jensen: Hmm.
Julie Harris Oliver: to that, to that what you just said.
Dion Elliot Jensen: Oh God. A a, a [00:19:00] terrible, a terrible set of wonderful opportunities. So.
Julie Harris Oliver: Oh, how lucky. How lucky.
Dion Elliot Jensen: So I if you, if you looked at my journey in isolation, let, let's, you are from your, a Hollywood background, so let's look at it like a script. If somebody gave me the, the script of the last 10 years, I would've torn it up and run the other way, irrespective of, yeah, yeah. I'm not going to be taking part in this film.
So how did I get there? I, I went from a completely inauthentic and disingenuous model of version of myself to an incredibly authentic and very genuine model of myself. Through that period, there were tumultuous, catalyst events that led me to really deconstruct and have my ego die and go [00:20:00] through a process of who am I and understanding who I am.
I've had broken down marriages. I've lost children. I've had all of the, all of the things that you would say are terrible circumstances have to me, uh, happened to me. But they were all. Wonderful experiences. I went through anxiety, depression at times, close to suicidal thoughts the real gamut of human emotion.
Um, but as much as they decompressed me, it was in those decompressed moments, or compressed moments, I should say that the real learnings, uh, were unveiled to me about who I am. And the lessons. Lessons were there. And it led me to this place where, as I said, love is the love is the purpose of life.
You're gonna have to read the book though, for the details.
Julie Harris Oliver: Fine. We can't give it all away.
Fair enough. Fair enough. Reading the book reminded me of something that was assigned to all of [00:21:00] my kids in elementary school, and I'll be curious if, if,
your kids had this as well. Or if it was just Larchmont Charter School, shout out to Larchmont. they were assigned a poem and the poem was, I Am,
Dion Elliot Jensen: Okay.
Julie Harris Oliver: and so the whole poem was saying who they are. But they used descriptions of senses, tastes, smell. So it would
Dion Elliot Jensen: Oh wow.
Julie Harris Oliver: the smell of my grandmother's cookies in her kitchen. I am from, warm hugs and hot baths.
Dion Elliot Jensen: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: I remember some kid, I am Bryant and the Lakers. you know, so.
Dion Elliot Jensen: beautiful.
Julie Harris Oliver: of their loves and memories
Dion Elliot Jensen: Yes.
Julie Harris Oliver: It was beautiful.
And it was so simple and it, and they got up and read them and so everyone was in tears the whole time about these poems
Dion Elliot Jensen: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: and was such a beautiful, unique formula that everybody sounded like this incredible poet.
Dion Elliot Jensen: Y [00:22:00] Yes.
Julie Harris Oliver: But it was, it was beautiful. And I wonder, you know, if we did that as adults, what would, what would that
Dion Elliot Jensen: Yeah. Well, I, I love the fact that they're so rooted in feeling it. It's actually funny you mentioned I was having a conversation with my mom's 78th birthday last night, and we were, we took her out for dinner. And one of my earliest memories of her. Was the perfume she used to wear. And I just happened to be in the chemist recently, and I found that bottle of perfume and I just immediately went, oh, at this, the flood of, of memories and emotion that came back from it.
And then she wore it last night and then smelling it. And then the, uh, the memories that that conjure up. And the reason why that's so important is just like the poems. You, you almost are accessing a different part of that memory. You're accessing the feeling and, and how you felt during it, not [00:23:00] necessarily
It's not necessarily the words 'cause the words don't necessarily do it justice. It's being able to access how it made you felt that I think is so very important. Yeah. I really love that. That's a, it's a really great way to write a poem. Beautiful.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, it's a, it's a sweet thing and, and it's, you know, good and bad. All the
Dion Elliot Jensen: Yes.
Julie Harris Oliver: have happened to us and all of our memories shape who we are.
Dion Elliot Jensen: Yeah, definitely. That's a very important point. Very, very important point. It's not all I call skittles and rainbows. It's all
Julie Harris Oliver: Isn't that all? Chocolate chip
Dion Elliot Jensen: yeah,
Julie Harris Oliver: bath?
Dion Elliot Jensen: exactly right. There's yeah, a lot that shapes us both positive and negative, but positive experiences can shape you negatively and negative experiences can also shape you positively.
So, it shouldn't, that, there shouldn't be a need or a desire to only have a positive experience.
Julie Harris Oliver: Well, the humanity of it all
Dion Elliot Jensen: Correct. Yes.
Julie Harris Oliver: So how, how are [00:24:00] you different as a leader now?
Dion Elliot Jensen: Yeah, good question. How am I different as a leader? I, I have a lot more freedom, from the outcome attachment, and I would say that makes me. A much better leader. And I also don't feel constrained by a sense of traditional masculinity where I felt that I needed to be the protector, the doer, the leader, the one that's always right.
So having that element of detachment in both of those aspects. Has enabled me to lean more into supporting the people that are being led to not necessarily make them shine, but because you're not trying to constrain or control what the outcome is, the outcome can really go anywhere. And more recognizing that let's not predefine where the destination is, allow it to organically get to [00:25:00] a point or to a destination.
And I think from a leadership standpoint. It's really important that we provide the fence or the guardrails, but they can be really wide. And you facilitate the ability to move freely within the guardrails. And that's been a real yeah, a real big learning for me, whereas before it was very much my way or the highway, and here's the highway.
Julie Harris Oliver: I imagine also that your presence is very different, I would imagine.
Dion Elliot Jensen: Yes, yes. I would like to, if somebody else was describing me or describing the change, if they knew me before and after I would hope they would say softer. More authentic, more reliable, more trustworthy. So, yes. Yeah. And I think that would have a big, big impact on leadership.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. And then have you noticed how people react to you differently?
Dion Elliot Jensen: Yes. The biggest is they're more forthcoming [00:26:00] more relaxed, I think more at peace and more trusting. Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. Is there anything I didn't ask you that I should have asked you about this?
Dion Elliot Jensen: I don't necessarily think there's something you haven't asked. What I would say as a close parting point is we put so much time and effort. Into worrying what other people think of us and using our our external validation to prop up who or what we believe our identity is. Just see it as a challenge to know that your personal opinion of who you are and what you are is so much more important.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, I'm getting really clear on that.
Dion Elliot Jensen: Yeah. Um,
Julie Harris Oliver: people find you? Find your book.
Dion Elliot Jensen: you can find the book at consciousfootsteps.com or if you search conscious footsteps on Amazon it'll pop up there.
Instagram: @dionelliottjensen
Web: www.consciousfootsteps.com
Julie Harris Oliver: Great. Dion Jensen, thank you [00:27:00] so much for doing this
Dion Elliot Jensen: my pleasure. Thank you.
Julie Harris Oliver: and so early in the morning.
Dion Elliot Jensen: Yes, coffee. Always rely on coffee.
Julie Harris Oliver: All right. you. It's all right. Thank you.
Speaker: This has been deep work out loud. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. I'd like to thank Dion Elliot Jensen for joining the podcast. If any of this resonates with you, please subscribe and leave review at all the podcast places, and please share this episode with a friend. If you'd like to work with me, you can find me at julieharrisoliver.com.
And let me leave you with this invitation. What might it look like for you to define who you are without talking about what you do? Take this on as an experiment. Try some things, report back. Thanks for listening. See you next time.